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Unknown A
P. Diddy is not dumb. He's savvy. He got money. He got influence.
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Unknown B
Charging Diddy with those in the historical context is almost laughable. This takes wokeism to a new level.
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Unknown C
I'm from the street. I grew up around this dude. It's not laughable. I'm gonna tell you that right now. I know for a fact it's not laughable.
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Unknown A
You got much money. You got that much street credit, you can get people killed.
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Unknown D
Kanye west is just seemingly out of control.
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Unknown A
I think he suffers partially from mental illness, but he's also insanely ignorant.
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Unknown D
We meet at last.
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Unknown E
I'm so excited. Let me take my heels off. We about to get nitty gritty. Hold on, let me get myself comfortable.
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Unknown D
Diddy's legal defense was dealt a fresh blow earlier this week as one of his lawyers sensationally resigned. Anthony Ricco said he provided high levels of legal representation for Diddy's defense against sex trafficking and racketeering charges, but that under no circumstances could he continue. Elsewhere in the world of disgraced hip hop stars, Kanye west posted a video ranting about barstool sports on a Dave Portnoy while wearing a sweater emblazoned with a massive swastika. Kanye's latest unhinged intervention has reignited the row about his right to free speech and unfettered access to X. But joining me to discuss all this is the star of the Officer Tatum, Brandon Tatum, the former defense attorney for Suge Knight, Matthew Fletcher, the rapper, producer and commentator Lord Jamar, and the legendary criminal defense lawyer Mark Garrigos. Welcome to all of you. Mark, great to see you back on Uncensored. I've not talked to you.
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Unknown D
Don't think about the whole Diddy case. How significant is it that one of his defense attorneys, high profile Anthony Ricco, has quit and made it pretty clear, I think, in the wording of his. Of his resignation from the team and the case that he obviously, I imagine, has issues with Diddy himself.
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Unknown F
Well, in full disclosure, I represented Sean off and on for many years and my daughter is still the lead lawyer for Diddy. So from a father's perspective, I don't think it makes one whit of difference, frankly. Diddy knows what he's doing. I don't think that Tony was the lead lawyer in the case. Mark Agnifolo is the lead lawyer who's very accomplished. I understand that anything Diddy related tends to get a lot of clicks, but this to me is no more than just a speed bump, so we shouldn't.
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Unknown D
Be reading into it. Anything more sinister? Because it does seem unusual in such a high profile case for one of the team to publicly resign like this.
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Unknown F
Right. I don't think that. In fact, I would venture to say that there's nothing to be read into it other than what often happens with these cases. You know, I was thinking back many years ago to Michael Jackson after I saw this and there were lawyer changes and shuffling of the deck. It happens often in high profile cases. I mean there's always going to be some lawyers coming and going. Inevitably. I've seen it in every single case I've ever handled. I will tell you that I don't think it means much of anything at all in this case. Sean is by all accounts ready, willing and able to go on May 5, and I expect that you and I will be back talking about it.
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Unknown D
What is your overview of where he is in terms of criminal liability here in terms of what may happen to him and the weight of the case? Because we know that when the feds come for somebody, they normally have a very good success rate.
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Unknown F
Well, that's absolutely true. I tell clients when they come into my office, you know, the, the federal conviction rate is in the high 90s, so understand there aren't that many lawyers walking around who've heard the words not guilty in a federal courtroom. So I've been fortunate to have that, as has my daughter and both. Mark Agniphilo, I will tell you, this is my take on this case. This case has been, the media has so run with this idea that we have a list celebrities, that we've got sex tapes, tapes are about to drop. The sex tapes are involved, whether it's, and I don't even want to kind of push forward the, the kind of crazy narratives out there. But I remember watching a TV show, Pierce, back in September where a woman said, a lawyer said that there were shopping tapes around and that this tape involved a, a list celebrity and blah blah, blah.
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Unknown F
Everything that has happened since then, every public filing in that case has led me to one conclusion and one conclusion that these are private studs tapes involving just one or two other females and another willing participant. There's, as far as I can tell, there are no tapes that involve so called a list celebrities. In fact, there's nobody else on these tapes except two other consenting adults. They weren't done surreptitiously, they weren't done covertly. And basically the government's case comes down to did victim. You know, as you know, they just superseded, added two victims. But it appears that it's just three, if you believe the defense. Three ex girlfriends. And that has morphed into now saying bad boy records has been a criminal sex trafficking enterprise, the likes of which is Abercrombie and Fitch. I don't see it. I haven't seen anything that gives me any indication that that is the case.
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Unknown D
Matthew, I saw you nodding there. You were a criminal trial consultant and a defense attorney for 25 years. You represented, like I said, Suge Knight with over 100 jury trials. You were involved in doing a lot of murder cases. You secured a lot of not guilty verdicts. Now, you said an interesting thing. You said that you're no fan of Diddy, but you still think this case might not be a very strong one. Explain that.
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Unknown B
I agree with Mark a million percent. This is a joke. This. This case is blown up into something that from nothing. When you have, first of all, a number five or six lawyer getting off a case means nothing. He's mad he didn't get enough camera time. He's mad he thinks he wants more money. It means nothing about the case. In all likelihood, he wasn't even particularly privy to all the comings and goings that were going on with the case. I'd be very surprised. Mark Garagos doesn't sit down and have conversations with four and five lawyers at the bottom. And it's not nothing intentional. It's just the practical reality in Sean in Combs cases. This guy is a unique individual, but he's not dumb. He's arrogant, he's obnoxious, He's a lot of things. But there's a lot of things that a lot of people in the music industry are.
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Unknown B
But he's not dumb. And he has an inherent. Every time I've ever met him, I thought he had an inherent quality of fear. You know, he was afraid of doing anything for himself, afraid of going to jail, which I understand. I get it. But this is the case where he. You know, here's a crazy thought. There are some people in Hollywood who have different sex lives than people in mid America like Marcus referred to. I've talked to people about these videos multiple occasions. No one told me that there's ever anyone. There's no baby oil. 2. There's no children. 3, there's no force, no coercion, no duress. These are commercial sex workers. He's a voyeur. He liked to have watches his significant others have sex. There's just almost nothing to this case. You have a very ambitious AUSA who doesn't have a lot of experience trying cases.
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Unknown B
AUSAs in general, they try serious cases. Never get me wrong, they don't do a lot of trials. And when you do a lot of trials, you know what's a strong case, you know what's a weak case. You can sense, you can figure out this is nothing.
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Unknown D
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Unknown D
When you go to shopbeam.com peers and use code peers at checkout. That's shop, beam b e a m.com peers p-I e r s and promo code peers at checkout. Now, on with the show. What about, okay, but look, you say it's nothing, but I would argue that what do we know that's already in the public domain that gives an insight into what he's actually like. Diddy and I would point to that horrific video in the hotel corridor where he beats up his girlfriend at the time, really appallingly, and he does that with impunity, not seeming to care that there may be CCTV footage that showed a guy who's capable of horrific violence against his own girlfriend. And at that point, you know, my thinking about all the allegations are, was, well, yeah, I reckon he's probably capable of pretty much anything. Any man that could do that to a woman in a hotel corridor is not a nice person.
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Unknown D
And they're perfectly capable of criminal acts because that was one of them.
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Unknown B
And he should be charged with being not a nice person. He should be charged. He should be charged with domestic violence, he should be charged with battery. He should be charged with anything. He arguably could be charged with assault with a deadly weapon, hands or feet. And it has nothing to do with sex trafficking. It has nothing to do with this white slave tribe. It has nothing to do with human trafficking. Those are the. Charging Diddy with those in the historical context is almost laughable. This takes wokeism to a new level in the law. The Mann act and the white slave trade act was not designed to be applied to a movie producer, a movie director or recording artist bringing in someone to have sex with his wife or his girlfriend while he watched. He beat her like a dog and he should go to prison for that.
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Unknown B
Unfortunately, he was never charged. And the same people in New York who want to charge everyone else or la didn't charge him for a simple corporal punishment to a significant to a spouse or cohabitant. That's what it is. But two things can be true at the same time. That is a crime. Without doubt. It is not sex trafficking. Without a doubt. It is an abusive abuse of a woman. Without a doubt. It is cowardly, it is uncool. It is all of those things. It is not sex trafficking by any stretch of the imagination. You can never find.
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Unknown D
Okay, I hear you. Let me bring in Brandon. Ted, if you're listening patiently to this. So it's all wokeism.
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Unknown A
Well, I think you have a perspective from lawyers, which I understand why they would have a very methodical perspective of what is the law, what does the evidence show. But then you also have the. The reality of it. P. Diddy and some of these other dudes are gangsters. They, they, they literally have people in fear. I honestly believe that if anybody were to turn on them, trade on them, lie on them, they, you could get killed in the streets. So they have this gangster lifestyle that's more real than what can be presented in the court of law. And I guarantee you there may be a lot more evidence and people who would be forthcoming, but they don't want to end up getting killed. You know, Suge Knight was a gangster, Snoop Dogg was a gangster. All of these rappers, they, they live a very hard life and they got people around them that'll do dirty business if they have to get to it.
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Unknown A
So I do understand that as a former law enforcement officer, you can only go with what the evidence shows and you can only go with what could be presented in the court of law, what's admissible in the court of law. However, on the other flip side of it, people get away with stuff all the time because they know how to move and shake. P. Diddy is not dumb. He's savvy. He got money, he got Influence. He got lawyers, they're going to get him in the best position humanly possible. But that does not mean that he's not potentially responsible for these things. And it was evident with him beating up Cassidy and probably beating up other women like that that this dude is, he's, he's very capable of doing all the things he's accused of.
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Unknown D
Yeah, I mean, Lord Jamar, we've talked a lot about this case since it first blew up. I've got to say, it's the first time I've had people be quite so defensive, probably the wrong word, but so kind of prepared to say this might be massively overblown. And they both happen to be top criminal lawyers, which is significant, I think.
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Unknown C
Well, again, you know, as lawyers, I understand their perspective and I agree that on a lot of cases, lawyers do get fired and all the, all of that type of stuff. The thing that was telling to me by this particular lawyer's resignation is when he stated, by no circumstances can I work on the case. That little caveat right there made me feel like he may have been, you know, privy to some sort of information. Information that made him say, you know what, I cannot defend a monster like this.
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Unknown E
I don't know.
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Unknown C
I'm just saying that's a possibility. It could be just a regular changing of the, of the guard like these gentlemen said. But when I first heard it and when he said that particular under no circumstances, it just made me think, well, why did he feel that? Did he have some sort of, you know, conscious, you know, thing of change of heart, you know, once finding something out? I don't know, I think it's worth asking, though.
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Unknown D
It is.
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Unknown F
My response to that would be, I get it. Because that's, you know, obviously you hear that, you say, oh, he must have discovered something if that was the case. And I do not, I don't see anything to support that if that was the case. The last thing the lawyer can do is what was done. You can't suggest. You've got a duty to your ex client. Your duty to your ex client survives even after death. So even if you want off the case, you can't disparage or suggest or do anything. So I think I get the reaction. I hear you. And that was that. That makes sense. But I can tell you that no, no self respecting lawyer is going to get off a case because he says, I can't deal with the evidence. I've defended cases, Matt has defended cases where the clients, you may not want to bring the clients home for Thanksgiving dinner.
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Unknown F
But that's no, that's no justification for suggesting, and I don't think that that was done here, that you saw something in the evidence and that's why you're here.
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Unknown D
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Unknown D
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Unknown F
Do I, I think I. Look, all I know is what I have been seen and I keep reading in the public filings. The public filings are. And unfortunately in this case they don't seem, nobody seems to pay attention to them because the public filings, the defense keeps suggesting that there's only three people here, there, all three were ex girlfriends, that there was no trafficking. The latest one that Matt just referred to was a challenge to the man act. And the challenge to the man act is they actually had to change the name of the act that they're charging him with years ago from the White Slavery act to the man Act. The defense says no black man has, I mean has ever been charged in this particular circumstance until Diddy. Are you telling me in the history of our country, Diddy's the first guy who gets charged with an act that's been around for God knows how long?
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Unknown F
Number one. Number two, are you also telling me that it's three ex girlfriends and that this guy. And I don't necessarily disagree that. That rappers have unsavory reputations, but you can't. To Matt's point and the tape point, you can't convict somebody. We have specific code sections in the criminal law 404 and federal. You don't just do a character assassination and then. Then convict the person. You don't convict them because they're bad people. You don't convict them because I don't like them because they live a thug lifestyle. Which, by the way, I didn't even know I was able to use thug anymore. I thought that was. Speaking of wokeism. I thought thug was off the table. But the fact is, you don't. We do not convict people in America based on them being bad actors. We convict them based on bad acts. That was Cassie's involvement in that hotel hallway, the bad act.
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Unknown F
Absolutely. But as Matt says, the statute ran on that.
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Unknown D
Okay, let's just pivot.
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Unknown B
And the other thing about this real quick on this issue that the lawyer says, it's like it's a term of arc. It's like in law, when you say we've had irreconcilable differences in a divorce, people say, well, that must mean he beat her. That must mean she beat him or was cheating. It doesn't mean it's a term of art. This lawyer has to make specific showings to the federal judge to be allowed off the case. And one of the ways you do that is that we've broken up and we can't get back together. And all he was saying is we've broken up and we can't get back together in court. We often call it, we're waiting for Mr. Green to arrive or Mr. Cash hasn't arrived. Everyone understands what the term of art means. And in this case, it means, I'm not getting along with this dude because I want to be the big dog or the top dog or I'm not getting paid enough money.
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Unknown B
It's nothing. There's nothing below that or should be read into it at all. Second of all, this concept that p. Diddy could have someone killed is laughable. I mean, he couldn't save his own bodyguard. I mean, there's just these stories are plentiful about all of these.
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Unknown C
It's not laughable. I'm gonna let you know right now that I'm from this, I'm from the street. I grew up around this dude. It's not laughable. I'm gonna tell you that right now. So let's pump the brakes a little bit.
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Unknown A
If you, if you, if you got.
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Unknown C
I know for a fact it's not laughing.
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Unknown A
You got that much street credit. You can get people killed. And the good thing about it is.
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Unknown F
For them is that you can get.
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Unknown A
People killed and nobody ever know. Just like you can get Shine to go to prison for you. Like, like he literally got a guy to, to shoot him up and went to jail for Diddy. Sean didn't snitch. So you got guys that'll do the crime for you and they'll do the time for you. If you powerful enough like Diddy, you got enough money, you can represent them in court, you can get them out. I mean, I, I, I, I would.
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Unknown B
Argue you don't probably know a little bit.
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Unknown F
Now, as I remember, Diddy was acquitted of the very case where he was convicted. So I don't know how you transmogrify that into that. He did the time for Diddy. Diddy was on trial with that case, Ben Broffman and Johnny Cobb. That was Johnny's last criminal case that he tried with Diddy, what, 25 years ago?
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Unknown A
Yeah, and I bet you did. He didn't have any credible witnesses that will testify against him either.
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Unknown B
So did he had his own chauffeur. His own chauffeur testified against him. His own chauffeur in New York testified against him and testified specifically that Diddy tried to bribe him. He had receipts and he wasn't killed, he wasn't attacked or anything else. This wokeism. And I'm going to carry this one second, this idea that you can say, well, that's a black guy and he's a rapper and he can get you killed. That's all made up. Tell me the name of one person who's been hit or killed at the direction of a rapper. One name.
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Unknown A
You won't be able to.
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Unknown D
You're not going to get a track record.
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Unknown A
Then it won't be effective.
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Unknown D
Let me ask you to get people.
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Unknown A
Killed all the time.
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Unknown D
Let me get Lord Jamal to answer that question.
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Unknown C
Listen, I'm not going to sit here with a laundry list of names. I'm just letting you know that it's absolutely possible. I believe it's absolutely been done in the history of not just rap, just of powerful men, powerful people in all different kinds of industry have used their power to kill people when they feel it's necessary. And the smart ones don't get caught. The smart ones have lawyers and stuff saying, oh, they would never do that. Like, the smart ones cover their tracks, but don't act like it's not within the realm of possibility. This is not some sort of conspiracy theory that people are pulling out their ass. Like, this is real shit. Like, I'm telling you, coming from New York and all of that type of stuff, I know about street culture and I know this is absolutely within his power. And we're just going to leave it at that.
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Unknown D
All right, Matthew, I'm surprised. Well, hang on. I surprised Matthew, to hear you give this kind of blanket. No rappers have ever killed anyone. I mean, you can't honestly believe that.
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Unknown B
Well, maybe not in New York. I can tell you there's no one in California who's represented more African Americans and Hispanics and rappers than I have to. I mean, there's not even. It's not close. It's not close. And I'm not saying that that's an impossibility. But literally, you can't find a successful conviction of a rapper who was predominantly a rapper for committing any crime. Shine is a perfect example.
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Unknown C
My brother, how many years he got. He got from murdering someone. Look up a guy named Chi Ali. He was a rapper that ended up killing his girlfriend's brother for doing some wildness. There's an example.
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Unknown B
Well, he served. I'll give you an example of. I'll give you an example of. From. Since it was reference made to the gang culture, killing someone in a personal battle is not considered gang related in any way. You can't use the gang to enforce.
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Unknown C
He didn't say you're now moving the goalpost. We didn't say the killing has to be gang related. We're saying rappers that may have said.
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Unknown B
He killed his girlfriend. Okay.
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Unknown A
I think. I think everybody on the panel know what drill rap is, right? You know what real rapping is. These rappers, literally, some of them have gone to jail. Some of them get killed on live stream. These dudes order hits. They got gangsters that will do business for them. It's crazy to think that.
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Unknown C
I mean, and then they rap about it.
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Unknown A
Maybe, maybe you would never see it because they're good at it. But people order hits all the time. People do stuff to vengeance. Their. Their big dogs all the time. I don't know how that's even mentioned. On this live stream or this, this, this show that rappers ain't getting people killed.
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Unknown B
Rappers are killed.
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Unknown C
Little Dirk is in trouble right now. But for ordering a hit, actually little dirt.
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Unknown B
But you know who's not in trouble is P. Diddy. P. Diddy. There's not a shred of evidence.
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Unknown D
Okay, so do you think, do you.
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Unknown C
Think we're saying it's possible though, he's capable?
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Unknown D
Well, Matthew, do you think in that case, do you think he's going to walk? P. Diddy?
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Unknown B
Sure. He's got a very, very good defense team. And in this case, to any experienced, and they're very experienced, it's not, this is not a real case. I don't, I, you know, I wish they would get away from saying he's a spectacular human being and just deal with the fact and say him and his wife were swingers or he was in a relationship that was open and they like to do these certain things. Keep it to that. When you start saying he's a wonderful human being, you open yourself up or the defense opens himself up for arguments to say, no, he's really a violent person and he's involved in this culture and that culture when you don't need it because there's no evidence that shows that this guy, you know, you can't convict someone of paying commercial sex workers for committing commercial sex work. Okay, I think he's walking.
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Unknown A
Can I add one thing? Can I add one? We already talked about federal, Real quick. We already talked about federal conviction rates. I have family members that went down on federal charges. The federal government don't just take lightly the investigations that they do. They do it over a course of time. They have a bunch of evidence against you. That's why their conviction rates are so good. And I think that for them to get diddy, they don't have to do this. They wouldn't pursue this if they didn't have something, in my opinion. So for them to get diddy on this, I think they have some substance there. Now, Kenny, walk. That's the beauty of defense attorneys. That's the beauty of people being able to put together a good argument that can get you off on technicalities, on the fact that you can impeach witnesses. I mean, you go down the list.
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Unknown A
That's why they pay these defense attorneys so much money. Because as you can see, you have high profile people that may have done the crime, but they get off.
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Unknown D
Let's be, let's be clear.
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Unknown A
That's the way our justice system works.
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Unknown D
Look, when someone like O.J. simpson can get cleared, then anything can happen.
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Unknown F
So let me just remember, just remember.
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Unknown D
Mark?
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Unknown F
Yeah, I was just going to say just remember before we jump on this bandwagon that they must have had this, they must have had that. There is a fight currently going on in the Southern District and the DOJ led by Emil Bove and Pam Bondi have already said they've shown the website for the then US Attorney a guy by the name of Damian Williams. He was bragging about the fact that he had indicted on his way out the door. Basically he had indicted both Eric Adams and P. Diddy, a rapper and a mayor. And that was one of the reasons they thought that didn't look good. The DOJ wasn't me, it wasn't the defense lawyer was the Department of Justice. They're fighting, trying to dismiss Eric Adams. Eric Adams and Diddy were both, both indicted by that U.S. attorney on his way out the door.
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Unknown F
He's no longer there. So let's kind of, let's hold on a little bit. And by the way, as to ordering people to, to get killed, as I sit here in Los Angeles today and I appreciate it guys, I'm, I may not run in the same circles. My only two clients that are accused right now of, of ordering a hit are both females who want to, who are accused of ordering hits on their ex husband. So let's, let's make sure we, we call it like we see them. They're the only high profile hit and they're sloppy.
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Unknown C
They're not there now. They're not good as that's why you.
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Unknown A
Have to defend them so well.
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Unknown D
I've done two series of interviewing women killers called killer women. So I can attest they can actually be very good at killing people.
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Unknown B
Mark, let me just ask and let's be fair about, let me be fair about one thing when we're talking about this prowess of the federal government in identifying actual criminals. I could remember three years ago having this conversation and I said I'm perfectly willing to accept that the President of the United States is working hand in hand with the Russians if you would just give me one witness who says it.
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Unknown D
Yeah.
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Unknown B
And we had years long prosecution with millions and millions of dollars and I'm still waiting to hear the name of one single witness participant who said Donald Trump did anything with the Russians and we don't hear about it anymore. And as I said then I'll say it now. When you can come after him, you can come out after anyone you want. And so let's not mistake just because it's the federal government. The Russian collusion.
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Unknown D
Yeah, the Russian collusion thing was bullshit before, during and after and remains total bullshit for the reasons you just said. Before we finish, I want to bring in Mark again quickly. Kanye west is just seemingly out of control. I want to play his latest video now. Deleted, obviously. But this was him talking to Dave Portnoy in which he said this.
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Unknown C
So, Dave Portnoy, I don't know you. I saw you as tweeting, I have.
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Unknown E
No idea who you are.
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Unknown D
And we was going back and forth joking. But when you start talking about telling.
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Unknown C
People that my coin is not real.
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Unknown D
And you're trying to play with my.
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Unknown E
Money now, this is the last time that we're going to be talking online.
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Unknown D
Now, that was a response to Portnoy calling him the worst human alive. Portnoy, of course, is the founder of Barstool, very successful media business. Kanye, though, spent the last like three, four weeks calling himself a Nazi, saying that people should go and whip Jews. He's wearing swastikas now and he's just been on this incredibly unpleasant anti Semitic, pro Nazi tear now for several weeks. First of all, Mark, from a legal perspective, you know, if you encourage violence against an ethnic group like the Jewish people, for example, then that is not covered by any First Amendment protection. So it does beg the question, does it stray into criminality? And if so, why is he allowed to keep doing this on X, which is a big social media platform where it clearly breaches multiple rules that they have there? What do you make of what is going on with him?
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Unknown D
Because he's got 32 million followers. It's not an insignificant thing that he's doing by amplifying pro Nazi sentiment, swastikas and so on.
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Unknown F
Well, look, all four of my grandparents were survivors of the Armenian genocide, so I, I'm very attuned to genocidal thoughts and I've spent a large part of my career defending against it. At the same time, I've also spent a large part of my career defending the right to free speech. This is obnoxious speech. It is. Probably crosses every line that you would want, except it's not criminal speech. And that's the problem. We don't criminalize this. The law is fairly clear. And so it probably, as you said, I haven't looked at the X rules and regulations as to posting speech and probably my guess is that they would find some kind of title 230 Refuge, if you will. But the fact is, is that it's not criminal. It is it can be repugnant, it can be obnoxious. It can be all of those things, but it's not a criminal violation.
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Unknown D
I mean, Matthew, a lot of people are sickened by what he's doing. A lot of people in the African American community, in the Jewish community, and every community, frankly, I'm in the white Irish Catholic community, and I'm repulsed by him. What do you make of it? I mean, he was one of the biggest stars in the world, and now he just seems to want to just offend absolutely everyone he can in the most egregious manner.
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Unknown B
Kanye. Kanye has very real mental health issues. I've met Kanye. I did a thing on this years ago that ended up where I said, kanye is suffering. Whether it's manic depression, I'm not going to diagnose him. But the cat knows how to act when he wants to, and he has these episodes. And you can't possibly think that this man is of his right mind to get on TV with a bleeping swastika on. He's. I feel bad for the dude. I don't feel bad for anybody who's. I don't think. He doesn't appear to be manic, but he certainly is going through something. And, I mean, are you trying to commit career suicide? Are you trying. I don't know. I just. I know when I've met him, I've come away multiple times thinking that, you know, that is really good. He has some good handlers because, man.
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Unknown B
And they'll keep him upright. They'll keep him upright and conscious because he sure is keeping the money coming in. But there's no one. There's no one who's met him come out and says, no, Kanye's completely mentally okay. And I'm not going to pile up on them. I mean, obviously, it's as racist if you sit in a white hood. It would just be. It's the same. It's the same, you know, limited rules. You know, whether it's the Armenian genocide, whether it's the Jewish genocide, whether it's the Houtsis versus the Tutsis, whether it's the African slave trade. If we can't agree that that's bad, we shouldn't be talking to each other. This cat is out there on an island and. And what else could it be? Because it's hard to believe someone who has children who are Armenian and he has women who are. I mean, this guy clearly has something wrong.
-
Unknown B
I mean, it's not much of a medical diagnosis. And everyone I know.
-
Unknown D
Yeah, I mean, or Brandon, he just is a monumental dickhead, as I posted on X, and enjoys the attention and is a supreme narcissist. And he just wants to be a massive dickhead morning, noon and night. And he thinks the best way to do that. Yeah, well, I agree with that, honestly. I interviewed him for two hours and I asked him specifically about mental health and stuff. I did not get the feeling, funny enough at the end that he was necessarily mentally ill. I just got the impression, Brandon, of a massive narcissist who just loves pissing everybody off in the most attention seeking way he can.
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Unknown A
Well, I say narcissism is a mental illness as well. So I think he's suffering from mental illness and he wants a lot of attention. I mean, to have his woman out there half naked everywhere to go after he cried on TV and complained about Kim Kardashian. He got little girls, he got kids. I think he's suffering partially from mental illness, but he's also insanely ignorant and wants so much attention that he's willing to wear a swastika and say all this crazy stuff. The reason it doesn't bother me because I don't take him seriously. It's like somebody.
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Unknown D
Yeah, but another problem was that I.
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Unknown A
Don'T take him seriously.
-
Unknown D
I hear you, I hear you. But Lord Jamal, just find it. We've got to wrap it up. But my issue with this is he's got 32 million people following him on X as he's spewing this stuff. And when you. For me, the absolute disqualifying moment was when he actively told his followers, 32 million people, that they should go and whip Jewish people at that moment. You should not be on that platform anymore. I don't know why Elon Musk lets him carry on. You know, I just think Elon Musk has got. Millions of people are removed from X all the time, including under Elon, for breaching their very tight rules about harassment, about inducing violence and so on. Why is Kanye getting this pass?
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Unknown C
Listen, I don't agree with his speech. I do agree that he has the right, as long as this doesn't cross into criminal lines, he has the right to say these things here in America. But I think something that, a point that I think he's trying to make, that he may be doing a very poor job of doing it, is that he's trying to also bring light to the fact that these record companies who have millions and millions of followers, who often have CEOs that are Jewish, it just happens to be that they will promote records that, like drill music. Let's talk about that actually causes murder and mayhem in the black community. So he's. I feel like part of his point that he's trying to make is saying, if this speech is bad, then that speech is bad. If I shouldn't be promoting this swastika and.
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Unknown C
And talking all this negative stuff about the Jewish community, then you shouldn't be promoting lyrics that put the black community in harm's way. As far as promoting things that gun violence and turning our women into whores and all this other type of stuff, I think that's one of the things that he's trying to do. But he may be doing a horrible job of making his point.
-
Unknown D
I think. Honestly, I think my theory might be the most accurate. But I appreciate all of you for coming on our census. Thank you very much indeed.
-
Unknown A
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
-
Unknown D
Well, Angela White, best known as Blac Chyna, is an American model, reality TV star, rapper, socialite, many strings to her bow. She rose to fame after appearing in Kanye West's 2010 music video for the song Monster and later appeared in Keeping up with the Kardashians. In recent years, she's gone sober, been baptized, reversed her plastic surgery, and even quit OnlyFans. Does anyone do that? It's an amazing development, and I'm astonished to say she's in the studio. Well, we meet at last.
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Unknown E
I'm so excited. You know, I'm happy to be.
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Unknown D
Very nice. Very nice to meet you.
-
Unknown E
Nice to meet you, too.
-
Unknown D
It's a long time coming.
-
Unknown E
Finally.
-
Unknown D
We're here.
-
Unknown E
It's perfect timing.
-
Unknown D
You're in London. You're in my studio. It's very exciting for both of us. Yes. Why are you here?
-
Unknown E
I'm here to really speak to you. I really, honestly, I just wanted to get to know you. Well, I'll tell them my story, too.
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Unknown D
Really?
-
Unknown E
Yeah. I think you're very interesting.
-
Unknown D
Really? Why?
-
Unknown E
I feel like you just speak your mind, and you're very controversial, and I feel as though you're misunderstood. And I kind of see that I would see that in myself. And I feel like maybe it's the same with you, and I could be wrong, you know?
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Unknown D
And I feel like, oh, I'm liking this.
-
Unknown E
Okay. And I feel like this is, like, your work, and then maybe, like, at home, you're a different person.
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Unknown D
That's not really the case. I get very judgmental about things like vegan sausage rolls for breakfast. I get very angry about it.
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Unknown A
Yeah.
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Unknown D
So I have my Breakfast. If it's a vegan sausage roll, I lose my shit.
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Unknown E
Yeah. You know what I mean? You know what I mean.
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Unknown D
What's it. Well, what's it been like to be you? You know, all these characters? I've just been debating. Yeah, right. So Kanye, you know, obviously, we know that you rose to fame because you appeared in that video for Monster. It's a great video. He was at his peak at the time. You were a stunt double for Nicki Minaj in that. You defended him a few years ago after he made some adverse comments about Kris Jenner. You said his rant then should be dismissed. Shouldn't be dismissed because of concerns about his mental health. So you clearly believe a lot of the things that's going wrong with Kanye for years have been driven by mental health issues.
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Unknown E
So I'm not a doctor, and I honestly think maybe more so abandonmentship, you know what I mean? If you like, kind of take a look back at all the people that's been in his life, and he kind of, like, put them on a pedestal and was there for them, they kind of, like, left. And I feel like that kind of sucks because sometimes we have to be there for people. And I feel like he hasn't really found that support yet that's going to stick by you through it all. So I think that's where like, the outburst is coming from.
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Unknown D
When you see, though, the anti Semitic stuff, the racist stuff, the inducements to violence, wearing a swastika, what do you feel about that?
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Unknown E
I feel like it's the crowd for help. I do, I do, I do. I don't think it's for money or for likes or clickbait or any of that stuff. I just feel like he just probably feels alone. And the only thing that we could honestly do is just pray for a minute.
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Unknown D
Have you talked to him in recent years?
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Unknown E
No. No. And I respect his artistry. You know what I mean? And I respect him as Dream's uncle, but I think that's just really what it is.
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Unknown D
I mean, he's. I interviewed him at length. He's clearly very smart. He's unbelievably talented. That is not in question. Yeah, I. I just. I mean, you might be right. Maybe it is all just that there's something inside him that he's eating away.
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Unknown E
Yeah.
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Unknown D
But ultimately, where my issue becomes, I'm a father of four kids. Right. Where's his sense of responsibility to his kids who must be going through utter turmoil because of what he's doing?
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Unknown E
No, I don't. I Think we can't discredit him as a father because we don't know. Like, I don't know.
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Unknown D
But we know what he's doing publicly.
-
Unknown E
Yeah.
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Unknown D
No child who's at school or whatever is going to be having an easy time if their dad's on TV wearing swastikas and saying, I'm proud to be a Nazi. No one's gonna. That's only gonna be bad for a child. Right.
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Unknown E
I don't think that any adult will actually go up to a child and, like, blatantly disrespect them.
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Unknown D
But other kids would bully them.
-
Unknown E
No, I don't think so.
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Unknown D
You don't?
-
Unknown E
No, I don't. I don't. I don't think so at all. Maybe if they were a little bit older, maybe say something. But not now. No, to be honest, I don't think so.
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Unknown D
Who can help him?
-
Unknown E
The only person that can help him is God. Jesus Christ. Yeah. That's who helped me.
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Unknown D
I'm going to come. I'm going to come to what happened to you. But is that enough? Doesn't he need somebody here?
-
Unknown E
Yeah.
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Unknown D
I just worry about who's around this guy, who can stop him, who can make him confront his own obvious demons.
-
Unknown E
Yeah. Maybe after. After this, maybe he can reach out. Like, I'll be there to listen. Because a lot of times people, they act and take certain situations and do and act out in different ways. You have some people that could be going through a lot of stuff and then they resort to alcohol or they resort to drugs or disrespecting people, you know, or hurting themselves, just all these different ways. Or some people actually just fall into depression. So I feel like every human is different and this is just maybe something that he's going through and this is the only way that he can express himself without. Yeah, I think this is the only way. And I think this is just a crowd for help, honestly.
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Unknown D
I mean, I worry. I do worry we're gonna wake up and something terrible is gonna happen to.
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Unknown E
No, I don't think that. And we shouldn't say that out of our mouths because our tongue is the most powerful thing. I don't think so. I hope one day we wake up and then he apologizes and amend things, you know? Cause it's always that.
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Unknown D
Have you spent much time with him?
-
Unknown E
No.
-
Unknown D
You don't really know him?
-
Unknown E
No.
-
Unknown D
But. But if you're saying if he wanted to, you talk to him.
-
Unknown E
Absolutely.
-
Unknown D
I suspect there aren't many people that want to talk to him right now.
-
Unknown E
Really? No. I definitely would.
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Unknown D
What about Diddy? Because you knew him socially, did you go to his parties or.
-
Unknown E
I went to one party and it was fine, though. I didn't see no crazy stuff. I think I was like, in and.
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Unknown D
Out because it was freak offs that were.
-
Unknown E
No, no, it was. It was too ghetto and it was hot.
-
Unknown D
I had to go, what'd you make of Diddy?
-
Unknown E
And I actually ran into him again. I had. Did a Caresha. Please. I did a podcast and it was like, in passing, like, hi, bye. That was it.
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Unknown D
What do you think of him?
-
Unknown E
I don't know which part. Like, as far as artistry.
-
Unknown D
I'll tell you why I'd be specific. Because you've had to face domestic violence yourself. Right. We all sort of, regardless of these charges against him. Now, we've had a very interesting debate with people, top lawyers, who think he may walk. You know, they think there's not enough evidence of the charges of sex trafficking and so on. But what we've all seen with our own eyes is his girlfriend at the time, Cassie, getting beaten up in a hotel corridor. We all saw that. Now the statute of limitations has gone. He can't be charged with any crime for that. But right there was a vicious abuser, domestic violence abuser for sure. When you saw that video, what did you feel about that?
-
Unknown E
It was sad. It was sad. And it's even more sad when you have to deal with things publicly too, and then internally at home, too, because it's like, as a woman, you. You're like, man, I went through this and my family know and the people that's closest to me know. And then it's like, now the world knows and then you have some people that is on my side and then you have people that is against it. So if. If anybody has ever been in domestic violence, like, you're obviously scared to say something and you won't say anything.
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Unknown D
You've been on both sides of this.
-
Unknown E
Yes.
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Unknown D
An alleged victim and an alleged perpetrator.
-
Unknown E
Yes.
-
Unknown D
You know, your ex boyfriend, twin Hector, said in legal documents she filed on Monday that you hid him when he was sleeping, verbally abused him frequently in the three years you were together till the end of March 2023. What's your response to that?
-
Unknown E
I'm actually glad that you brought that up because I've never responded to that because it's all false. It was never nothing filed. And it's one of those things where you know what clout chasing is, right? Clout chasing at its highest, you know, and once again, like the mental of people. Somebody else. Success can make people do the most. If that makes sense.
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Unknown D
So explain what's happened here. What's the truth?
-
Unknown E
The truth is false.
-
Unknown D
All of it?
-
Unknown E
Yes.
-
Unknown D
Well, all. All his claims are false?
-
Unknown E
Yes.
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Unknown D
Why is he making them?
-
Unknown E
I have no idea.
-
Unknown D
You think for clout, like you're saying.
-
Unknown E
Yeah, clout. He's attacked me. He's attacked my mom. Like, he's done a lot to me.
-
Unknown D
You said he hasn't filed documents. That's.
-
Unknown E
No, it's all false. It's all fake for a clout.
-
Unknown D
Well, he said he filed them, but he hadn't.
-
Unknown E
It was on. I don't remember. What was it? Maybe tmz. Sad.
-
Unknown D
Do you wish you hadn't spent so many years with this guy?
-
Unknown E
And also too. It wasn't three years.
-
Unknown D
How long was it?
-
Unknown E
It was. I would say maybe two.
-
Unknown D
Two years?
-
Unknown E
Yeah.
-
Unknown D
That's a long time to spend with a guy that then does this to you.
-
Unknown E
Yeah, it sucks. And it never seems like they're gonna do the most to you until like, you leave. Yeah.
-
Unknown D
What'd you think of him personally? Yeah, just spit it out. What do you really think of this guy?
-
Unknown E
I feel like he needs to like, seek Jesus. Yeah. And don't do that again to like, people. That's innocent. Honestly, I don't like it.
-
Unknown D
Have you ever struck him? No.
-
Unknown E
No.
-
Unknown D
Do you feel like it now?
-
Unknown E
No, not. No.
-
Unknown D
I would if someone did that to me.
-
Unknown E
You know what? Like a lot of times, like, I've had so many allegations come out about me before. So, like, this one is not nothing new. And I'm glad that you actually, like, brought it up because I never would addressed it. And I feel like all these years, because I've never addressed certain situations, people have this whole perspective and narrative about like my character. And it really hurts, you know what I mean? Because it's like if you respond, it's like you did it or you're. Or she's responding about anything that comes out. And I'm like, that's never been my personality to respond you.
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Unknown D
I mean, it'd be fair to say you've cleaned. Cleaned up your act and yourself. Right. You've. Every day you're a different person every day. What was the moment when you went enough of that life?
-
Unknown E
The moment. It wasn't a moment. I feel like it was just steps because we all know, like, right from wrong. I'm taking my heels off. We about to get nitty gritty. Hold on, let me get myself comfortable.
-
Unknown D
I wasn't expecting this. Okay.
-
Unknown E
We're taking the heels off. Okay.
-
Unknown D
Big moment.
-
Unknown E
Okay. The toes is out, the dogs is out.
-
Unknown D
We're not going back to your stripper career here, are we?
-
Unknown E
No, not today. I left that in whatever years those was. Okay, so read the question. I had to get.
-
Unknown D
Well, no, I'm just curious. Was there a, you know, literally in your case, a come to Jesus moment?
-
Unknown E
Right.
-
Unknown D
Because you found God properly.
-
Unknown E
Yes.
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Unknown D
And you renounced the kind of hard partying. This is what I read. You can tell me what's true. But a lot of drinking, a lot of drugs, a lot of crazy behavior, and then you go another way completely. I'm just curious, what was the catalyst for that?
-
Unknown E
So it was a trickle down. It was a few days before my birthday and I called up everybody, I'm like, hey, the only thing I want to do is get baptized on my birthday. At the time, I was not in the church. In a church, like having a church home. So I asked my friends and actually two pastors have pulled up to the house and they baptized me on my birthday. So I was reborn on my birthday.
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Unknown D
How old were you?
-
Unknown E
May 11th. I was turning 34.
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Unknown D
This is last year or no, how long ago?
-
Unknown E
2020-202251-12022. 2022.
-
Unknown D
So 5. Okay, so we're talking like two and a half years or so.
-
Unknown E
Yeah.
-
Unknown D
And when you did that baptizing, what went through your mind?
-
Unknown E
It was a sense of relief. And at that moment, I just knew I needed to start putting in the work because before I went to the water, me and bishop, we had a long conversation. And he explained to me, this is not a one time thing. This is going to be an ongoing relationship. Sorry, an ongoing relationship that you're going to have with Christ. So it's not. You get baptized and everything goes away. So with that being said, I'm like, okay, what does that basically mean? So staying in the Bible, cutting off certain people and things of the sort, but obviously you have to do all these things at your own pace.
-
Unknown D
Do you drink at all now?
-
Unknown E
No, not at all.
-
Unknown D
No more drugs, nothing. How bad was it at its worst?
-
Unknown E
At its worst, I would say. And this is the thing too, right? So I thought if you drink for like two, three days straight back to back, that that's not an alcoholic. In my eyes, an alcoholic was, you have to wake up, you need a drink. I need a drink. I need a drink. But it was when I would drink an alcoholic drink, it's like I wanted another one and another one and another one and another one, and it's binging. So I had to come to the realization, like, hey, like, maybe I am an alcoholic, you know?
-
Unknown D
You think you were?
-
Unknown E
I think so.
-
Unknown D
And a drug addict as well. Alone?
-
Unknown E
No, not a drug addict. Alcohol, for sure.
-
Unknown D
Do you miss it?
-
Unknown E
No.
-
Unknown D
Never get the temptation devil on your shoulder?
-
Unknown E
No, I have nightmares. Like, I literally have a lot of nightmares where I'm asleep and I've drank in my sleep and I will wake up like, oh, my gosh. Like, are you serious? Because it's like, I'm not starting over, because I've started over and I did it. I would do, like, four months, and then it's like something happened, and then I would, like, go and do it again. Like, start over and start over, do it again, do it again. And I would fail. So this time I'm like, I'm not. I'm not going back to it. That's not the lifestyle that I want to live.
-
Unknown D
What do you. What do you put on your passport? What are you.
-
Unknown E
What you mean?
-
Unknown D
Well, you're a model, television personality, rapper, former stripper, social. I mean, there's a million descriptions. What do you think you are?
-
Unknown E
Child of God.
-
Unknown D
Child of a God. But other than that, what's your job, do you think?
-
Unknown E
Right now I don't ha. I don't wear just one hat. It depends. It depends. But right now I would just have to say entrepreneur. Mother. That's it.
-
Unknown D
Are you stinking rich?
-
Unknown E
Is it What?
-
Unknown D
Are you very rich?
-
Unknown E
No. Are you?
-
Unknown D
I don't know what's rich. I was just curious how much money you made.
-
Unknown E
Oh, from what?
-
Unknown D
I just. I feel like I've known all about you for years. It's like.
-
Unknown E
Yeah.
-
Unknown D
There's always an assumption that the money must be pouring in.
-
Unknown E
Pouring in like what?
-
Unknown D
I know. You tell me what you think rich is.
-
Unknown E
I don't know. How much is rich?
-
Unknown D
What do you think it is?
-
Unknown E
I don't know. How much you want to eat?
-
Unknown D
What do you think you have to. Have to be rich? How much?
-
Unknown E
I feel like if your bills is paid and you're comfortable, then you're rich. If you're not stressing about your next meal, then you're rich. Yeah. Having a lot of money. That's nice, too, to invest it in things like that. But if it's sitting in the bank, then that's silly.
-
Unknown D
You obviously, everybody knows you had. You're involved with the Kardashian family. What's your. Do you get on with any of them anymore or not? Do you have any relationship with anyone?
-
Unknown E
Yes, I do. Yeah.
-
Unknown D
Which ones?
-
Unknown E
Which ones? I speak to Kim. Me and Rob, we are like this now. We're like that.
-
Unknown D
You have a good relationship with him now?
-
Unknown E
Yes. I've spoken to Chris. I speak to Khloe too. I haven't seen Kourtney and I haven't seen Kylie.
-
Unknown D
Right.
-
Unknown E
Like to like, actually speak to like that.
-
Unknown D
How do you all get on, huh? How do you get on with them? You get on well.
-
Unknown E
Yeah. Like, hi, bye. How's the kids?
-
Unknown D
Hi, bye. It's not a very long conversation.
-
Unknown E
Yeah, like, hi, bye. We'd be at the school. Like, we beat the school.
-
Unknown D
We got kids at the same school. Okay, so you're on the. You're on the school run.
-
Unknown E
Yeah.
-
Unknown D
Out the school gates.
-
Unknown E
Wait, say it again.
-
Unknown D
You're on the school gates.
-
Unknown E
Yeah, for sure.
-
Unknown D
How's motherhood?
-
Unknown E
Good. Great. Best thing.
-
Unknown D
Yeah. You want to have more?
-
Unknown E
I do, I do, I do. I'm like, I'm getting older. This is crazy. It's different for women when you start getting up there, man.
-
Unknown D
Yeah, well, age wise, you mean. Yeah, age wise, you're still a spring chicken. I'm 65.
-
Unknown E
Yes, that's spring too.
-
Unknown D
60.
-
Unknown E
Yeah. I think, like, no offense to anybody, like, 75 is like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
-
Unknown D
Why are you in London?
-
Unknown E
Why am I here?
-
Unknown D
Trying to find a new man here or.
-
Unknown E
No, I'm actually engaged. No, I'm not looking for love. I'm engaged to Derek Ray.
-
Unknown D
Oh, who's he?
-
Unknown E
He is a six time Grammy producer.
-
Unknown D
Wow.
-
Unknown E
Songwriter. Yeah.
-
Unknown D
When are you getting married?
-
Unknown E
I'm not sure yet. You want to come to the wedding?
-
Unknown D
Why not? Nothing else to do.
-
Unknown E
Okay. Not every good.
-
Unknown D
Are you happy in your life?
-
Unknown E
Super happy.
-
Unknown D
You clean, you know?
-
Unknown E
Yeah.
-
Unknown D
No more partying?
-
Unknown E
No more partying. But it sucks because, like, I'll go to the club and like, of course I feel like out of place. Cause everybody's drunk, like, spitting, like ty na, you know, And I'm like, I'm glad that y'all invited me because people think that I have to be an old prune because I don't want to drink. Like, I can still go out and socialize and things like that and not have a drink. It's actually better. Cause then you get to like, people watch, like, dang, they lit.
-
Unknown D
And what do you feel about your.
-
Unknown E
New president as far as what?
-
Unknown D
You like him?
-
Unknown E
You know what? I'm going with the flow. I'm going with the flow of things. I think that some things is out of our control and we can only be the best version of ourselves, you know, that's really what I think.
-
Unknown D
You'll see what happens.
-
Unknown E
Yeah, we gotta see what happens.
-
Unknown D
It'd be lovely to meet you. Well, Angela, what should I call you?
-
Unknown E
Angela?
-
Unknown D
Are you still Blac Chyna anymore?
-
Unknown E
Yeah, Blac Chyna's the brand.
-
Unknown D
I know. So you prefer to be called Angela?
-
Unknown E
Yeah, Angela Blac Chyna White.
-
Unknown D
Got it. Well, it's lovely to meet you finally.
-
Unknown E
Love me too. Thanks for finally.
-
Unknown D
Yeah. Good luck with your wedding and everything.
-
Unknown E
Thank you.
-
Unknown D
I'll be there, obviously, if I get the invite.
-
Unknown E
Please.
-
Unknown D
Nice to meet you.
-
Unknown E
Thank you. Nice to meet you, too.
-
Unknown D
Here's Morgan on Stenson is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. You enjoy our show. We ask for only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Piers Morgan uncensored on Spotify and Apple podcasts. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain, and we'll do it all for free. Independent, uncensored media has never been more critical, and we couldn't do it without.