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Unknown A
I think your comments about no Elon, let's say as a globalist force that isn't exactly akin to the previous globalist force. It's like, well, maybe we've tried to distinguish this technically in our discussions at arc. Okay, so here's some principles. Tell me what you think about them. Policy that requires force and fear is indicative of it's at least subopimal and it's probably tyrannical. So that one of the ways you determine whether a policy is acceptable is whether or not it's invitational. Right? And so it'be like I make you an offer and hopefully you're on board voluntarily, which would make you a much more efficient participant as well. And even if you're not fully enthusiastic about it, you can't think of a better alternative that you would lay claim to. Right? So it's like you can imagine if we're gonna neggootiate reasonably, we might say, well, we're gonna be duty bound to accept the best offer we can conceive of.
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Unknown A
Right. I mean, hopefully it'll be one that also fills you with enthusiasm. But in the absence of that, at least you won't be able to think of a better alternative. So no power, no force, no fear. Right. And then the other thing that we've toyed with, let's say, or played with, is the idea that not only does the vision of the future have to be invitational, there has to be an element of play about it. Because like I studied play fairly deeply neurophysiologically, and play is a really interesting motivational state because it's very fragile, it can be disrupted by almost any other motivational state. So the sense of play, which is like direction with variability, Right? Because that's play'direction with variability. That only emerges when the situation, say, of communication and cooperation has being optimized. So then you might say another way that you can tell if the venture is proceeding well is that if everybody engaged in it can engage in a sense of play.
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Unknown A
And I like the play idea partly because it's voluntary, obviously, but also because play implies a fair bit of tolerance, you know, for deviation along the path.
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Unknown B
Y. Yes. For vicissitude. Now, I'm assuming that your experience as a clinical psychologist must be primarily interpersonal alough you will ultimately be dealing with large data sets. But the reason I'm fascinated that you bring up play so early in our conversation is because when precisely looking at the posts of Elon Musk and Trump Trump saying, you know, make Canada the 51st state, or we're going to reach all the way down to Panama or we're having Greenland or Elon Musk's sort of puckish pugnaciousness in dealing with his detractors on his own platform doesn't have that kind of haughtiness and piety that we remember that kind of pharisee like certainty of the materialist rationalist neoliberal oligarchs who appear now to be being displaced. This play though I wonder Jordan and this is not an assertion I make with regards to the list previous listed individuals. I know our audience when it comes to Trump and Musk and stuff but there isn't there mischief and play in the demonic also now like the reason I like play one I'm a comedian one I enjoy liminal spaces and I enjoy the uncertainty that's a prerequisite of play.
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Unknown B
The true spirit of pioneering discovery that is encompassed with in play and I enjoy actually in fact perhaps much of the Trump phenomenon was this politician isn't talking like other politicians way back 2015 with Hillary Clinton cause you'd be in jail at that moment. It was like people don't say that up against the sort of school mom sort of sort of blaster and haughtiness have you come to you know thatr the English are bequeath to the world abundantly that kind of sor of Victorian certainty glance the notot at the piano leg in case you feel a tumescent stirring in the loins total lack of joy and play. Now it isn't it interesting to see that tool of play wielded now by the truly powerful by Trump and Musk. It'll be interesting because you know their detractors continue like you know, you might see a late night talk show host saying see I told you, I told you they're going to take over Canada.
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Unknown B
Well what Elon Musk doing meddling in British politics. But regardless of again as a Christian, regardless of the know Trump's not God, Musk's not God. They're all human beings that are going to come and go and perhaps I've been thinking this about Elon Musk somewhat lately. Is there a point where order of magnitude alters essence that is is not Musk just a reiteration of Murdoch? Because you know Tony Blair used to kowtow bend the knee, go on holiday to ensure that Murdoch would report support his new labor movement. It was understood that Thatcher required Murdoch. It was understoodstood that if Murdoch unleashed an oce of in against an opposition party, the government would remain in Power. Now Murdoch, he still has some power across the Anglophonic world. And you know, I don't know what Murdoch's power is like now, but what I know is that Elon Musk is like a version of a media magnate, at least when it comes to the social media aspect of his vast enterprises.
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Unknown B
But when it becomes not a 20 minute perusal of some rag, but an ever present mirror reflecting back an ongoing conversation, the ability to maneuver and censor that as well as the manner in which he's conducting that conversation, again, not the sort of what would appear to be, perhaps I'm being naive, the economically led kind of, I imagine Dow Jones watching sort of traditional entrench mentality of digger, for that was the nickname, wasn't it of Murdoch. You now see this sort of wellaps perhaps again it's the technology that leads because the technology now diffuse cybernetics. No instant instantaneous systems taking place in the present because, because our systems for understanding God were mechanical in the industrial age, they were, were agricultural at the advent of that significant seismic shift in our kinds Weltenchong. So now, now that we have this instantaneous omnipresent potentiality, maybe everything's changing.
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Unknown B
So in short, what I'm saying is like, is what's happening now entirely unique because, because it is temporal, because of the temporal component, because of this instantaneous immersive ability to alter conversation, maybe it no longer is even paradigmatically the same.
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Unknown A
Dr. Well, you know, I just did an interview with Pierre Polyev, who's going to be the next Prime Minister of Canada in all likelihood, and he chose to speak with me in depth instead of talking to the legacy media, let's say. And it was actually rather comical from my perspective because all the legacy media outlets in Canada had to play catch up, which I contemplated with some degree of, you know, inappropriate satisfaction. But there's something. So we had to talk about that because Polyv had expressed in doubts about his performance in the discussion. He said there were many topics he didn't get to. And so we talked about that and I said, well, you know, the long form podcast format can't be manipulated a priori successfully because if you come to the podcast with a set of talking points and you stick to your script, you're gonna get first of all, no one will watch you.
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Unknown A
And I've seen this with political figures. This isn't a guess. I know this is the case. No one will watch you and all the comments will be negative. You have to come there knowing where you stand. But Ready to follow the thread of the conversation wherever it goes. And to do that, you have to sacrifice the pre planning.
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Unknown C
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Unknown A
Okay, so then we might look into that more deeply and we might say, well now that video is predominating, let's say, over the written word. That means that that might mean the re emergence of something like spontaneity over propaganda. Like that could be the case because the new media forms do prioritize spontaneity instead of preparation. Now you can see that as a technological shift. You know, back when bandwidth was staggeringly expensive and every second on broadcast media cost a fortune, you could imagine that risk minimization was the name of the game and that every second had to be controlled. But that restriction is no longer present even at all. And so what that should mean, what that might mean, and that's what you're referring to, is that an entirely new form of political discourse might emerge and that people who are capable of generating a certain degree of perspicacity and wisdom spontaneously are going to be prioritized over those who have a bent towards incentivized or instrumental manipulation.
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Unknown A
I mean, polyv could do that, right? He had a conversation with me he got no questions ahead of time, none. And so. And he was willing to go along with that. But it is really a completely different way of now we've been talking to Democrats too, trying to get them on the podcast circuit, and the resistance so far has been the utter inability and unwillingness of people on the Democrat side to forego their pre planned agenda with regards to a conversation.