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Unknown A
By the way to say that I had some role in persuading the Ukrainians to fight for their country Obviously totalkly imp improvels also great fat steaming life.
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Unknown B
I wonder if Dave Smith is one of the people that propagate that America.
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Unknown A
John ukotiate 1% pure Russian propaganda. Why would we want to expand NATO right up to Vladimir Putin's borders?
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Unknown B
It was already there. They didn't invade because of anything to do with NATO. Why do we keep spreading that talking point? It's already Russia doesn't really like NATO expansion that much. Sure but the reason why they don't like it because Russia likes to and pillage its neighbors when it's convenient to.
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Unknown C
Themull on fire destroyed and killed thousands of children.
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Unknown B
When Trump said Zelenky had 4% approval do you think an aide cherry picked Zelenkys worst poll numbers in was plus 4% net approval meaning 50? Who knows bro? I dont know whos at the bottom left Some lady that I spoke to that I said it was kind of a nice conversation and then I think towards end I was like youre like an evil person I think because she was like a super manipulative my position.
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Unknown D
Im ready to do that. Secondly I can exchange it for NATO membership if there is such so were.
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Unknown E
Asking for rare earth and oil anything we can get.
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Unknown C
He doesn't care about Russia or Ukraine so this is a robbery. Now Tesla has lithium going its batteries. Elon wants that lithium.
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Unknown A
I do think it's kind of gangster to try to like strong arm Ukraine into giving us what really isn't rightfully ours.
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Unknown B
Noof even all the traditional Trump defenders are having a hard time with this one. Oh no. How are you doing there Dave Smith who is defending Trump and thinking he'd have a better policy. Now we've got let's take over Gaza and let's fully surrender Ukraine and steal other minerals. Hmm.
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Unknown F
Hmmly been kind of a force for good. Yeah.
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Unknown A
No, I find it to be very immature thinking to say NATO's either good or bad. Pierce, you and Tucker had your argument about this but if you want to say NATO's a defensive alliance, I mean I guess except for all of times when it's not.
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Unknown G
No going back from a parade when.
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Unknown B
What was I feel like there was one big NATO mission that wasn't defensive. Was it Libya or was it oh no, Serbia been Serbia Yugoslia Shit U is that the only one NATO was defending Kosovo from Serbia though. What was the impetus for NATO to become involved? We intervened in that as defensive Action as I think its easily framed. Okay, but I mean it was one that wasnt. It didn involve like like an Article 5 invocation or whatever. Right but anyway I think thats, I think, I think thats like the one you could point to but otherise I dont know how else you could. I don't know what else you would argue that NATO was offensive on. Maybe Dick Smith will give us his.
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Unknown G
Brilliant historical take celebrating the mutilated strangled bodies of babies.
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Unknown C
Jeez, Hamas did is so stupid. But are we ever gonna talk about the 15,000 dead children?
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Unknown A
Children slaughtered?
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Unknown F
There will never be peace in this region as long as the Palestinian people do not believe Israel has a right to exist.
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Unknown C
When is it gonna get through youriplines that Palestine doesn't exist because of the murderous terrorist of Israel?
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Unknown D
On the third anniversary of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, President Trump is clear about what he wants. An end enter the war U.S. president to double down on his false claim the President Znky's dictator and that Ukraine started the conflict. Zelensky says he'll give up the presidency for peace and offer to do so immediately in exchange for.
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Unknown B
Yeah, that's true. How does he say what Hamas did was stupid? Not like bad or evil, just stupid. Oopsies. We did a whoopsies of NATO uk.
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Unknown D
If it's about peace in Ukraine and you really want me to leave my position, I'm ready to do that. Secondly, I can exchange it for NATO membership. If there is such an opportunity, I'll do it immediately without'a long conversation about it. I'm focused on Ukraine'security today and not in 20 years. I don't plan to be in power for decades. Spoken like a true dictator. I'm sure we can all agree. Well, the US and Ukraine are also sparring over whether tens of billions in usa, much of it spend in the US on US weapons will have to be paid back. Trump's course words have muddied the waters, but the negotiating stance is becoming clearer. The United States wants a share of Ukraine's vast mineral wealth and it also wants Europe, not Washington D.C. to guarantee its security and future. And the President's personal attack on Zelensky may be uncomfortable cost to bring imp Putin to the table.
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Unknown D
If he's not there, the war can't end. Trump said a statement on Monday that the minerals deal is an economic partnership to ensure the American people recoup tens of billions of dollars. He also said that he's now in serious discussions with Putin about ending the war and that talks of Proceeding very well. Well, so far so good. But dealing with devils carries risk. Laid bare in the latest chilling scenes from Gaza. The masss turned the release of four dead hostages, two of them children, into a sick parade. One coughing contained the wrong remains. Others were stuffed with Hamas propaganda. Three empty commuter buses in Tel Aviv and exploded in a botched terror attack. You can believe in the art of the deal and not the people that the United States is dealing with. I'm also joined by retired US army brigadier and a former former assistant secretary of state under George W.
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Unknown D
Bush, General Mark Kimmt. Well, welcome to all of you. I want to start by playing a clip from an interview I did with the former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson. There is this weird disconnect than particularly on the conservative right who do not share our view, who seem to think that Zelenky is the real villain here and that Putin was provoked into doing this to safeguard his own security because of NATO encroachment. And Guy, what do you say to that specific Totally mad.
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Unknown A
It's totally mad. It's through the looking glass. It's's the complete opposite. And by the way, to say that I had some role in persuading the Ukrainians to fight for their country is a great it's obviously totally implsible. It also a great fat steaming lie.
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Unknown B
Oh, I wonder if Dave Smith is one of the people that propagate that there's another Russian talking point that Ukraine was like ready to surrender. And I don't remember why Boris Johnson went. I don't know. It was justice show support. I don't know if it was there on like official like negotiations or whatever. But after he went down and then came back, people were saying Boris Johnson went down because he was telling Ukraine that they had to keep fighting because the west needed them to keep fighting. Whatever. Thats like part of the just a theres absolutely no basis of rality for this but theres a random conspiracy that people spread peal second conspiracy. Does this Sunday do that one?
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Unknown D
Well, let me start with General Kit on this just from a pure military perspective. General, thank you for joining me tonight. Who started this war?
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Unknown E
Well, first of all, I think it's pretty clear that the Russians invaded in 2022. There's some questions I'd say historically about what happened in 2014.
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Unknown B
But if you're Tal O, who is this guy? Oh man. All right, we got one guy on here that believes that euromaiddan was a CIA coup. I know she does in the bottom left. Never heard her speak about Ukraine in my life but I already know that she believes that 100%. And Cenk I'll give him a 50 50. And Dave Smith I'll give him a 70 30. I don't remember I'HEARD him say that or not. Joe Walsh hopefully doesn't believe this. Come on, Joe.
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Unknown E
Talking about what happened three years ago.
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Unknown B
It was clearly Wait, Joe Walsh literally repeats that same oh wait, is this him? That's it.
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Unknown A
Destroy the human species if we do this. And yet there's this war right on Russia's border and there's no to negotiate going on. There's in fact from very reporting that actually America thr Bo Johnson told war deal out this is bullit.
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Unknown B
This'just 100% lies. This is a 100% pure Russian propagand bullshit lies talking point There was no cred reporting us Nobody believes there's no evidence. This's just stupid. This doesn t make sense. Through Bori str why the we have to do noense to the uk why are we dma work through bores strts.
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Unknown A
At the dealip sources and deal bas pull back p leave Ukraine underition the condition Ukraine guaranteed auty for the Damas region and agree to Dr. N a.
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Unknown E
Deal the Russians there was no warning about it. There was no provocation on the part of Zelenskyy. There was certainly no movement of Ukrainian forces to threaten the Russians in the east. So this one goes to. This one definitely goes to Putin.
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Unknown D
And in terms of where we are in this potential peace settlement, it seems to be more and more that the jungle drums are beating. I got this feeling from Boris Johnson. I got it actually from interviewing President Zelensky 10 days ago or so that there's a kind of general acceptance of various things, even if they're not being stated explicitly. One is that Ukraine will not as part of settlement get full membership of NATO. That seems to be completely off the table. Secondly, there's likely to be a freezing of the territorial lines where they are right now, in other words, where they barely moved in the last virtually a year actually that that kind of Eastern slide the 20% the Putin taken where things have been pretty well at a stalemate that that will remain under Russian occupation, but probably not without any sovereignty transfer to Russia.
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Unknown D
And that America will recoup some of the money it's put up to help protect Ukraine and to continue supplying protection perhaps as part of united force including Europeans going forward by taking a chunk of Ukraine's mineral revenue going forward and minerals themselves. That seems to be where we're heading here. Is that your reading of this and how workable would that be?
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Unknown E
Well, if you're asking me, first of all, the battle lines have been at a stalemate for almost two years now. I wrote an article for the Wall Street Journal in July of 2022 predicting that we are going to see this World War I Flanders Field trench warfare. So nothing has happened on the ground of any consequence. But I think you've outlined what the basic framework of the American position is. And I think it's important to understand that the view from the conservative right is that if we're going to support a country in Eastern Europe like Ukraine, there should be a return on that investment, that the American taxpayer shouldn't have a total cost to them if there's a return on that investment. Mineral wealth. I think that's where the businessman Donald Trump comes in. Shake that you described it right. It will probably end up as a frozen conflict.
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Unknown E
The Europeans right now are talking about not only a frozen conflict, but a situation where it could be the peacekeepers are put into the donbasass so that both sides withdraw outside. So it looks much like say Kashmir or the area between North Korea and South Korea. But that has to be negotiated. I think we're a long way from a settlement before we actually see what the architecture of the deal looks like.
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Unknown D
Yeah, let me bring in some of the rest of P.E. joe Walsh. I mean, I hoped and prayed that Ukraine could repel Russia. But my army brother who I've cited a lot, but he was colone the British army for in Iraq and Afghanistan and know more about these things than I do, he said from the very start there is not a chance that Ukraine is going to beat Russia. They just do not have enough firepower to do this. And he said that steadfastly threw it to the point where I understood he's right. And I don't think anybody thinks that Ukraine can now win this war. Which brings me to Donald Trump and his blunt instrument way of dealing with these things. We saw it in in Gaza. We're seeing it again with Ukraine. I don't like the way he talks about President Zelenky. I don't know why he has to demonize him in all this.
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Unknown D
I think calling him a dictator when you're not calling Putin dict.
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Unknown B
Pret.
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Unknown D
Crazy. I think saying Ukraine started this is also ludicrous. However, if the bigger picture for Trump is taking a battering ram to an intransigent military scenario just painted so well by General Kimmick where it's just going nowhere and excuse me. I spoke to Trump on the phone a few weeks ago and he told me about the reports he was getting about the killing on the, on the ground and he said it was exactly like World War I, just big open fields of both sides gunning each other down. Thousands of casualties.
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Unknown B
Oh, Hassan repeats that same conspiracy theory.
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Unknown H
There's a.
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Unknown B
Well that'oh they're good friend Mariam Wson there. Williamson, sorry, why you have to have.
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Unknown H
China at the table as well.
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Unknown I
But ultimately X went to Russia. We were hoping for that. I was hoping for that. X went to Russia, he spoke with Putin, Zinssky said hey call me. We all hop. I don't care who can come up with an answer this. And we were hoping and they actually ended up with these quite weak principles.
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Unknown H
There was a 15 point plan negotiated in Turkey in the earlier version of the invasion that was. That seemingly was a little bit more prosperous. Znskia himself even conceded to pushing Crimea later down, you know to like like a 15 year program for Crimea where he would like have another democratic vote.
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Unknown B
On how to another democratic vote implying the first one was come on, get to the parts where everybody in the world, every single party in the world was ready for peace except for the United States which forced Boris under threat of murdering his whole family to go and blow up the peace deal.
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Unknown H
Best continue on with those negotiations that all fell apart when Boris Johnson visited Ukraine. And I dont think that England has any sort of agency in this conversation bey the US forating his mouthpiece for.
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Unknown I
The American state partview with and so forth. So yeah, I mean I don't think you have to excuse the United States to stand the soit of Ukraine.
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Unknown H
Yeah, I'm just saying that like there was, there was a negt with 15 point u. So okay, so that'that's Russia and Ukrain you talk about multiparity. So what is your opinion on the current administration dealing with China and what would you do differently?
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Unknown I
We need to walk back the Cold War talk. We need to completely multip.
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Unknown B
Polarity is a buzzword, a slang. Every single time you say multipolarity all they're saying is we have to desty the United States. That's what that means every single time. By the way, don't ever let any far lefty loser commit. It's always what that means.
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Unknown I
Shift the paradig of foreign relations. You know, this is we skirt disaster. We skirtaster when it comes to the environment, we skir disaster when it comes the economy. We skirt dis when it comes to people'lives and healthcare Skirtaster when it comes to war, we absolutely must move from an abse oppositional adversarial role with other powers. Once again, like de multip world. We're not the only superpower and it's our own fault by the way. It's our own fault we squant our mor authority.
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Unknown D
We'the d and he said this cannot go on. So I think he genuinely wants to end this sense.
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Unknown B
What does multipolarity literally mean? I dont t know who invented the term. Um, but the uh u idea is basically that we have to move into a world where there are multiple poles of power. Its not just a unipolar world like the United States. Some IR people, I think Mearsheimer was one of them, I think popularized the concept. In a unipolar world it would descend into chaos and mayhem. Like his predictions after the fallold of theon curtain I believe is that Europe would just go back to the chaos prior to World War I if it was only multipool the world. Everybody would start fighting amongst themselves and it would all fall apart. So they say we need multipolarity. We need a strong Russia and China. But whenever you talk to these people, they will make an infinite amount of excuses for an infinite amount of crimes committed by Russia or China.
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Unknown B
But they will always cuck the United States ability to act. So if Russia were to go, you know, across the border and just a million women it would be like well, they'a great power would you expect them to do? But if the United States were say hey dont t do that, we were re gonna sanction you all of a sudden they would discover morality and claim that the US has to act better and needs to curb its enthusiasm and blah blah blah. It's the most every single person has a multiplarity is always on some anti US hate America, hate the west shit every single time without exception the slaughter.
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Unknown D
And I've not seen a better idea frankly to getting this sorted than the kind of scenario that Trump has laid out, which is we get minerals and we supply some security and the Europeans have to step up to and supply security and that's how we move forward. Do you see a better way of resolving.
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Unknown B
I don't think's a fairary position what he means. I don't he's readilyi American. I don't think I've ever seen near Shimer critical of the state of Russia ever. He seems to be committed wholly to spending as much time on his knees for every Single Russian talking point ever. Ive never seen a more reliable printing machine for KGB talking points than your chimer but maybe Ive missed it. Maybe there are other speeches or other things that I just haven't seen of.
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Unknown F
His but I dont know Pierce but even if you buy that benign view of Trump that he just wants to end the war, I still don't know how you explain what he's done and said in the past month. If you wanted to end the war then why are you only beating up on one and bad mouthy one side and lying about the country that was invaded? Lying about lying Pierce that Ukraine started this war. I'm coming to you today herece the UN just passed the resolution earlier today on the three year anniversary calling on Russia to simply withdraw from sovereign Ukraine. The United States of America voted against that UN resolution.
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Unknown B
Think about that.
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Unknown F
The United States joined Russia and North Korea in voting against a simple resolution.
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Unknown B
So supposedly Serbia voted against it too. I think right. It was Serbia. And I think their, their guy came out and said I don't know who wasbassador. Someboy came. I was like we actually misclicked on the vote for oops that says Russia.
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Unknown F
Get out of sovereign Ukraine. Every freedom democratic country in the world voted for that resolution.
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Unknown D
You know, you know why America has voted against it is because they know it's not going to happen and they are trying. Trump is trying and I believe this. I think he is a guy who prefers peace of war. Think he prove that his first term. So regardless of the rhetoric which I think is very unfortunate, I do think that the idea that America right now in this process is gon toadenly vote with the UN which they feel is pretty discredited anyway. Then they're gonna vote with the UN resolution to kick Russia up knowing it's not go going toa happen. How does that advance?
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Unknown B
Why did we vote? No, I have no idea. I don't know why I wouldn't just have abain or what. That'just is wild to me.
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Unknown G
Stronger party and I think he is playing Putin like a fiddle.
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Unknown B
This lady on bottom left probably is directly paid by Russia. I would not be surprised dealing with at all if that was the case.
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Unknown F
For the United States to simply say on the third year anniversary that it was wrong for Putinin to invade any ougt to withdraw. That seems like a fairly easy thing for the United States of America to do. But Trump can't do that because he will not distance himself from would t done.
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Unknown B
I think Biden would have What Voted on the resolution? Have they done a resolution?
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Unknown D
This?
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Unknown B
Why would you assume that? Wait, what? What?
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Unknown F
He will not distance himself from Bide wouldn't done either.
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Unknown B
I think he would have.
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Unknown D
Really think Would have? I don't think so. Let me bring it back here. Let me back here.
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Unknown B
Look, hold on. The United States is here. UN General assembly vote to condemn the Russian attack on Ukraine the United Nations General assemly resolution was passed the 141 nations condemning Russia invasion of Ukraine while five nations voted no and 35 abstained. So the United States has voted yes on a resolution. I dont know if the text how similar the text is but if the United States nations has any purpose it is to prevent war. So the United States US envoy Lindnda Thomas Greenfield hmm. Well good one. Oh we even have a joint statement the United States mission to the United nations condemning Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine. Okay, good one. What is this? UN General assembly demands Russia reverse course on attempted illegal annexation. Who voted for this one? United States voted yes. The UN Journal ass leaducted resolution that condemns Russias illegal so called referendums in regions within Ukraines internationally recogized borders and demands it reverses its annexation declaration.
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Unknown B
Hmm. Okay so that was just a totally made up bullshit quote by peers. That is not even just made up. Its actually just actually incorrect.
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Unknown D
But okay, we were a very febrile moment in this whole war but we could also be at the beginning of the end of the war and if that is what is going on here and theres a recognition on all sides its got to come to an end and we'now just trying to work out how that happens. What is your feeling about the kind of settlement it looks like is on the table.
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Unknown G
So I so appreciate you being willing to admit this about Donald Trump because you have been such a stalwart defender of Ukraine and yet you are one u the Ukraine.
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Unknown B
I think she gets um. If you ever careries why people like her say that is because they get little bonus checks every time they can use the most offensive phrases possible. If Ky ever comes up shes s also going to call it Kiev every single time. Kiev. And though Ukraine 100% correct.
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Unknown G
Donald Trump hates war. He thinks its totally wasteful. He thinks it its bad for business and he wants this to end. You know from the point of view the American people theres never been widespread support for this. The American people have never understood why this is our job to fund this. And I think Donald Trump expected when he came into office to find Zelensky the one eager to have this settled and Putin the one sort of holding off and being recalcitn. And when he found the opposite, and when he found Zelenky totally unwilling to do the most basic act of gratitude and give the United States a state in these minerals, I think Trump got very angry about that. Now I want to address something that I think I agree with people. It doesn'seems a little mysterious. I hear people saying all the time, why is he, you know, demeaning Zelensky and building up Putin?
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Unknown B
Why is he demeaning Zelenky and building up Putin? Because we already have all the leverage we need on Putin, but we don't have any leverage on Zelensky. So this is part of the negotiating tactic to bully Zelensky and to signing it because he's the one who's been against it. Maybe, I don't know.
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Unknown G
I think the answer to that is, is because Donald Trump is a deal maker and he does not view international relations the way that the liberal post world order saw things. You know, the Obama administration b administration, they have this view of diplomacy that you need to sort of.
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Unknown B
I love the hallucination from this dipshit that the actual fantasy that Trump has some coherent view on international relations, it is actually so fucking funny. Oh my God.
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Unknown G
Have two equals at the table or as equal as possible. And so if your ally is the one who is stronger, you gott bring them down a little. If the person that you're not dealing with is weak, you lift them up a little, you get people to an even, even playing field and then you can make a deal. And I think Donald Trump sees things in the exact opposite way. He's see for a real estate point of view, you're never going to get a deal if both sides have equal power. What you actually want is a power disparity because then the Uaker party has more of an incentive to compromise. And the stronger party is going to compromise as well because they get to remain the stronger party. And I think he is playing Putin like a fiddle. He knows that if he goes out there and builds up Zelenskia and makes Putin feel the exact same fears about NATO not being that buffer zone and NATO Ukraine not being a buffer zone, Ukraine being part of NATO, Putin will never come to the table.
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Unknown G
But if he says to Putin, I respect where you're coming from, I don't care about the history, I just want this to end, then that is what's gonna Putin to the table. And I think he assume that because Ukraine has gotten $200 billion out of the a lie.
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Unknown B
$200 billion. Its's always cash, its always stolen from the American people. Probably gonna say some of it was stolen by the country. Talk aboutnky shopping sprees, unaccounted money, whatever.
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Unknown G
Black hole money American taxpayer. But they would be willing to come to the table too. And I think hes very upset at Zelensky is not turned out to be that way.
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Unknown B
Every single. It'like every single Russian talking about always every single video. Imagine youre re like a. This is why I don. This is why I think AI is overhyped. Okay? People think that AI can go through all this information and these LLMs are so impressive. But the reality is if you feed. You feed an AI like 10,000 hours of video content about any given topic, it really only has to go through like seven different talking points to have a comprehensive view on every single thing thats s ever been said about it. Like I speread this AI 400 million hours of people arguing over Russia and Ukraine. Like what did it spit out at me? Like, give me the pro Russian arguments. These are the advanced RRs, okay? They were Ukrainian Bioabs, Azov Battalion or Nazis NATO not one inch EAS sword violation. What else? Zelensky'a dictator.
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Unknown B
No elections, banned religion, banned churches, banned the Russian language. The people votedlyet. It's like. It's like seven talking points and that's all it has to learn. And then it just sees the same thing over and over and over and over again.
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Unknown D
Chek you were laughing, but I mean, that could be entirely accurate.
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Unknown B
No, there's no chance that accurate.
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Unknown C
Thank you. Sorry about that. Okay, so look at the beginning. This was a giant mystery. I didn't understand what was going on. I might'said this on your show Perss. I was like, why would we be attacking our ally? Put aside the fact that they're ally. It doesn't make any sense. In negotiation, you want to put leverage on the opposing party, Russia so that they're willing to get to a deal that we can live within our ally can live with. Putting pressure on your own ally who's in the weaker position makes no logical sense of negotiation ever. Ever. It's the exact opposite of what you're supposed to do. So putting inside any feelings about Zelenky and Russia, this is't about that. Just in sheer negotiation, it makes no sense.
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Unknown B
Okay, so but now you think that periodus has Russian ties or it's just an idiot in America. The both sidezr are way more generous towards Russia than Europeans. They'both sideizr. If you're both sidesir but you're European. I think the Russian threat is a little bit more ever present. Its a little bit more real. So its hard to both sides that I dont think youe gonna find very many like lay epic centrist people like peers who are favorable to the Russian side. In Europe its a little bit more little bit spookier.
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Unknown C
I'SOLVED it because its clear now whats happening because they want the mineral rights. So hes putting pressure on Zelensky because he doesnt t give a damn about what kind of deal Russia and Ukraine strike and how much land one keeps to the other. Do you know what's in the mid? We keep calling it mineral rights. Titanium and lithium. Oh what who needs lithium? Elon Tesla has lithium going into batteries. Elon wants that lithium. So the deal that date that our Treasury Secretary pushed across the table to Z Lensky when they were one on one and try to bully him into signing was we spent 100ARS $200 billion in Ukraine. There's conflicting numbers. But look, we all want peace. We all want to stop spending that money. That's legitimate. The negotiations are perfectly legitimate. The Dr. For peace perfectly legitimate. He pushes across the deal for $500 billion in minimeral rights.
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Unknown C
And here's the most important thing that American voters have to understand. Those minerals do not go to us. The American taxpayers, the American citizens. They go to American corporations. We are going to get $0 out of that. But Elon Musk is going to get fabulously even richer. He wants that lithium and he doesn't care about Russia or Ukraine. So this is a robbery now and that's why they're pressuring Zelensky instead of Putin.
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Unknown D
Okay, Dave Smith, It's a robbery. PA for today s show council to a business focus on a critical issue Prosperity. US national debt is a crisis levels inflation has made life more expensive. Everybody. The stock market is precarious to make anyone's financial future feel grim. What is the solution? A simple one is opt out of the chaos. Invest in something solid and reliable physical gold and silver. One need to remember American the persont A plus rating in the Better Business Bureau and growing reviews. You can see for yourself. They're offer incredible range of gold and silver bars and coins that can be delivered directly to your door or that help you set them up in a tax advantage. Gold ira first class customer service makes the whole process simple. A gold IRA straightward American half a gold is committed to getting the truth out there and giving you peace of mind in uncertain times.
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Unknown D
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Unknown A
Thank you u well look, I mean look I don't complete God, what a.
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Unknown B
Hard position for Dave Smith, the number one fucking Trump fan centris to be.
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Unknown A
Onoof agree with Trump's proposal. I do think it's kind of gangster to try to like strong arm Ukraine into giving us what really isn't rightfully ours. And it's kind of rightfully the people of Ukraine, by the way. I say it's not like as a commi at all. So what I'm saying right mean like people own it or something and like whoever homestead it or something about Lockke and property pr. But you know, there's been this major change in Donald Trump's rhetoric towards Zelenskyy through the campaign and through the very beginning of his administration. He would always just say he had a great relationship with him and there's.
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Unknown B
Been a major change. Excuse me. Trump has been saying super positive things about Putin for years. What are you talking about? There's been a significant change. Shut the fuck up. Oh my God.
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Unknown A
Things he can get a deal done. Something there has changed for sure. But in terms of the stuff, look, if you're trying to negotiate a peacece to this and you accept that we're not going to get the Biden Nancy Pelosi pipe dream which was always a pipe dre. Your brother was correct about that pce that we were gonna, you know, repel Vladimir Putin from Crimea. This was all just ridiculous and hundreds of thousands of people died in the pursuit of this unachievable policy. And if we can all accept that we're go goingna get some type of settlement here, that we're goingna have to negotiate an end to this war, that Ukraine isn't going toa be able to defeat the Russians militarily, then obviously it makes absolutely no sense to sign ont to these virtue signaling UN resolutions. It makes absolutely no sense for him to be just out there insulting Vladimir Putin, which seems to be the demand from so many progressive democrats like Listen.
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Unknown B
Nobody wants him to insult him. They want him to take a strong negotiating stance against him because he was supposed to be the great negotiator.
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Unknown A
Not a question whether you thinkladimir Putin is good or bad. And I agree with you. I mean, mean, you do not see I de on this issue.
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Unknown B
P.S.
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Unknown A
But I agree it's not accurate to say once he started the war. There are many factors of claimim Putin'the one who invaded the country. But the point is, if you have a hostage negotiation, if someone with a gu runs into a school and holds a bunch of kids hostage and you send him the negotiator, you don't start insulting the guy and just virtue signaling for no reason and talking about how terrible it is to hold kid'hostage and what a monster he is. I such a better person than him. I would never do anything like that. And the truth is you do in.
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Unknown B
Some cases let them keep some of the kids. Is that what you do? Is that what you do in some cases? Dave Smith, if, if you want to use this an analogy, then let'yeah let's go ahead and run this analogy. How many kids of the 500 kids that a school hostage takeaker takes of thoseids, how many kids you let them keep forever? Don't just care if that's the analogy want you use. Is that what you do? You promise them half?
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Unknown A
Try to flatter the guy a little bit. Try to get the best deal that you can get. You're trying to save lives here. And I'm not gonna speculate like J did on, you know, I don't think this lithium is gonna end up being turned over to Elon. And I think it's quite possible bet Donald Trump does have good motives here and that the truth is that Joe.
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Unknown B
Biden's policy and yeah, and then also do you talk the kids? I like school children that don't get captured by school shooters. I like the ones that ducked. Okay, like what is this analogy?
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Unknown A
What regards to UKRA is the most reckless policy in the history of the modern American policy in general. To be on a proxy war with the two countries with 90% of the world's nuclear arsenal, to be in a proxy war over whether the Donbas region is ruled by Kiev or Moscow never made any sense whatsoever. And there have been close calls all throughout this thing. If you think about the Nord Stream pipeline, where we made the attempt to blame that on Vladimir Putin, which was never true. If you think about those missiles that hit Poland, which were Ukrainian missiles, which Ukraine immediately said Was Russia. There were very close calls here. If you study the history of the.
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Unknown B
Cold Very close calls to what? What are you talking about? You think that a missile from Ukraine and the Poland is gonna start world Wari? Nobody wants world war three to happen. If World Wari was gonna happen it would have happened by now. Like, like it's obvious that neither Russia nor the United States wants this to happen. Not like these things just happen on.
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Unknown A
Accident war we came very close to nuclear war on a couple different occasions and so I'm sorry Donald Trump is.
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Unknown B
Trying to bring an end yeah, but these occasions were direct, generally directly confrontational. Cuban missile cards are probably the most famous one but they were shipping nuclear missiles like what is Cuba? Is it like 100 miles? How far is Cuba from for Key west this is a close place. Okay. It wasn't a proxy of a proxy shot a proxy who was being supported by whatever and now we almost had like nuclear winter. These were thesenations were like a lot.
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Unknown A
More direct into this war then I think if you successful in that it'll be the greatest accomplishment of his life and I'm all for trying the greatest.
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Unknown B
Accomplishment negotiating the unilateral surrender of Ukraine without them even being invited to the talks.
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Unknown A
Wow. To end this war.
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Unknown D
Okay, General commit I that's not the question.
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Unknown C
No, he's misdirecting though. That's not the question. We all want the war to end and I don't need him to yell at put I don't need him to sign anything. I just need him to do rational negotiat so that everyone on here is happy in the war ends and I don't need like Ukraine to win on every negotiating point. I just want to get the peace. If you want to get to peace holding up Ukraine for a $500 billion robbery that is obviously going to go to help American corporations like Tesla who need that lithium that makes no sense and that hurts the cause that you care about davabe that all of us.
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Unknown D
Care aboutue I'm not as convinced chec this is all just some played by El I mean I think if America can do a deal that gets a lot of Ukraine s minerals in return for the substantial support America given to Ukraine and would then continue to give it seems to be a pretty pragmatic deal actually. And my question for General Kim it would be this which is I wouldn't trust Putin as far as I could throw him and I think his actions in Georgia, in Crimea, now Ukraine, full Ukraine all this suggests to me is the theory that many people have about him which is that he wishes the Soviet Union had never been broken up. That he is intent on expanding Russia's territory and he gets away with keeping 20% of Ukraine then why would we.
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Unknown B
Not just do this again? For any other non aligned country I.
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Unknown D
To come back for more. He'll try and get it somewhere else and try to expand Russia's power and territorial reach elsewhere. And I've got to say I'm very cynical. I think that's exactly what you'd like to do. Am I wrong to be cynical?
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Unknown E
No, I don't think you're wrong at all. Now look, he's paid a pretty heavy price in terms of what he's lost in Ukraine. Hundreds of thousands of dead, probably 10 times that amount wounded. You got understand that the Russians can take pain like nobody's business. What he has lost in Ukraine is a fraction of what they lost to World War II. And he is testing NATO, there's no doubt about that. If he wanted to attack he could continue this attack.
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Unknown B
Keep in mind when you talk about Russian losses during World War II. Cor me if I'm wrong but weren't Ukrainians the largest like blacker part of the Soviet BL that died World War II deaths by deaths by region. Am I making this up? I'm pretty sure yeah Im'pretty sure. Ukrainians were literally the region that lost singularly like the most people. Its kind of weird to bring up World War II as an example here but you know, fuck history.
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Unknown E
Testing NATO, there's no doubt about that. If he wanted to attack he could continue this attack, not Ukraine but up in the Baltics and take back that critical area up in the Baltics against him.
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Unknown D
Access to what he's.
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Unknown E
The Russians can take pain like nobody's business. What he has lost in Ukraine is a fraction of what they lost in World War II. And he is testing NATO, there's no doubt about that. If he wanted to attack he could continue this attack, not Ukraine but up in the Baltics and take back that critical area up.
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Unknown B
Oh nevermin. I might actually almost unfortunately agree with this, which is disgusting but the BTICs.
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Unknown E
Against him, access to the Atlantic and the North Atlantic. The only thing I think that is holding him back is that it's not a matter of what he would lose, it's a matter of fact that he goes from fighting one country, Ukraine to fight 27 countries in NATO. So I do think that he is, he does not think for a moment about what he's lost in Ukraine and the effect it has on his population. That's the beauty of being an authorarian leader. I do believe that he has those long term aspirations, as so many Russian monarchs have had throughout history, of expanding the Russian empire well beyond where it is now. But I will tell you that I disagree with what Boris Johnson told you about and to use your term, NATO expansion. The fact is that one could make a legitimate argument that the Russians have had a paranoia throughout history about the encroachment of the West.
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Unknown E
The word Ukraine means the frontier. The Russians have always wanted a frontier between themselves and the West. And if you want to make that argument that there was some legitimacy of this concern of NATO enlargement and trying to dismiss it, I wouldite remind Americans about the Monroe Doctrine. We go ballistic when foreign countries get anywhere near the United States as we've done in the past. We invaded Grenada, that great existential threat to America. We invaded Panama, yet another threat to the freedom and liberty of Americans. And the only time we really had a legitimate reason for doing that was in 62 when the Soviet Union put nuclear missiles on Cuba. But let's be honest, Americans have the same paranoia about encroachment into our hemisphere.
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Unknown B
I super think that's a bullshit ass argument. I think that there might be some legiticacy maybe over the over our behavior in the Cold War outside of my historical super knowledgeable part here but minor saying he is the Monroe Doctrine was basically the United States said also this is pretty old I think basically the United States said hey listen Europe, you guys are cool and you guys can do all of your crazy colonization stuff but say the fuck away from South America. Okay? No more of your silly colonizing stuff happening over here. Do what you want in other places but not over in South America. Fuck you. And I think that was basically all the moder reductor was but theres difference between that and like we want you to not take over or not doing any colonization here because we want to do it. Were go going toa go take over every single South American country.
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Unknown B
We were gon toa go ahead and take over every North American country. Just say the fuck out of here with your goofy stuff. Russia is not just telling people to stay out. Russia is telling people stay out so that they can be the military bad boys and like take over Ukraineian or huge parts of it. Thats I think it its quite a.
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Unknown E
Bit different but has pututin into his what he believes is his hemisphere as well.
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Unknown B
Yeah, I do get his hemisphere. So Putin is allowed to dictate that what is. I don't even know what that means. His hemisph.
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Unknown D
What is his.
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Unknown B
What is his hemisphere? Is it like all of Europe and Asia and Africa and mid middle. What does that even mean? What are we defining that as?
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Unknown D
Okay, that argueent I know it's the one that he pedles loudest with his own people but I think the paranoia stroke desire to not see any impending encroach as they see it on their border it's probably real. That doesn't mean the right to do what they did paranoia. You can understand why some of them.
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Unknown A
Ifly because I think sometimes even in your question Divorce Johnson sometimes people go like all or nothing at this right? Was Vladimir Putin provoked? And therefore if he was provoked, he's a great guy and he was justified to invade the country like that. The second two parts don't follow. But the point is I would highly recommend you to back up what was just said here. If anyone wants to go read. Because the CIA director for all four years of Joe Biden's administration was the CIA director while this entire war was going on. Burns right. He is the one who authored the Niette Means n Yette memo that was sent to Condoleeza Race and this was not for the public. We only know about this because Julian Assange leaked at but he said he was at the time he was the ambassador to Russia and he put out this entire document where he was like look, these plans of including Ukraine in NATO is going to be a disaster.
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Unknown A
And I've been over here talking with everybody in Russia, not just Vladimir Putin. Evenest_eral crit they all agree that this is the brightest of red lines for them. They will not tolerate Ukraine being a part of America's military lines and I just don't understand why. No, of course we would not tolerate that either if China or Russia wanted to bring Mexico into their military.
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Unknown B
It's so stupid this comparison. Nobody calls him out on it's so stupid. We're not actively invading Canada and Mexico. It doesn't make sense for them to join all linece like that. Yeah, of course. And these are oceans apart. Why it's not even remotely accurate comparison. What would even be the cause for the majoritized'like we're invading them all the time. It's not even remotely similar.
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Unknown A
Of course we would not tolerate that either. If China or Russia wanted to bring Mexico into their military alliance and then just announced as they did two months after this memo at the Buchare Summ they were going forward with that. And then there thenured potentially careful that.
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Unknown B
Might not age well because who knows May Trump ll let me qualify we're not yet invading Canada or Mexico, maybe.
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Unknown A
Over $100 million into a street protest which overthrew the democratically elected president of.
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Unknown B
And then there's the Russian propaganda for 2014. Remember you Maidan was just a CIA coup and we know all of that because there was one leaked phone call where our diplomats said they prefer one.
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Unknown A
Leader to the other Mexico who was gonna make a deal with us and then when the other we would have the exacts and I don't think Washington D.C. would be above invading Mexico if that's what they needed to do. We would never tolerate that. And we could recognize the leir Putin is no angel and also understand that the west put him into a situation where he reasonably could claim I cannot tolerate what your plans are here. What's the point of us doing this? It makes no sense. It's not in our interest.
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Unknown E
Yeah, I mean, well, yeah. What I would add as well is Bill Burns was working for James Baker when James Baker told gensher as part of the reunification of Germany that we would not seek to expand NATO to the east.
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Unknown B
That's a lie and it's based off this. I don't know how many it does it make sense? Where would NATO expand to? There was no place East Forrnado to go. Nobody knew this Soviet Union was about to collapse. That doesn't even make sense. Then not one inc eastward referred to putting weapons or military installments in East Germany after unification. It doesn't make sense that they would ever agreeo eastward because the Soviet Union, the whole Warsaw Pact still existed. There's a stupid talking point. This is so stupid.
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Unknown E
Again, wise people like Bill Burns, James Baker understood this basic perhaps unfounded but but genetic predisposition closing approachment of nat Ukraine their frontier.
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Unknown D
Yeah, Joe, the other part of this I think is significant is the British Prime Minister going to the White House on Thursday. The Emmanuel Macron is there Monday. And Trump is quite right in my opinion, about the disparity between what America contributes to NATO in terms of resource, money, weaponry and so on compared to the European countries. And through his own hectoring about this, many of the other NATO countries are now paying a lot more money than they were before into NATO. But he's also right that ultimately Europe should be moving quickly to be able to secure itself collectively from people like Vladimir Putin. And I don't understand why there's any kickback to that. I think the UK spends about 2.3% of GDP on defenseences. No, we near enough we live in dangerous times. And I think that Trump is very, very accurate in saying Europe is not punching his weight and needs to do that.
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Unknown D
And know people dismiss it as America first isolation so on. Well, yeah, but it doesn't mean to say it's not right. You know I do think that many European countries to wake up.
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Unknown F
Well peieron they have and they have. The last four years while Trump wasn't in the White House, European nations dramatically increased their share to NATO. Europe has contributed more to Ukraine than the United States did. But pce to this notion has this notion of encroachment of NATO.
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Unknown D
Yeah.
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Unknown F
Excuse me. You either believe NATO'a good thing or a bad thing. There's a reason why countries like Finland and so many other European other European countries want to be a NATO. It's a good thing. It's a defensive alliance for freedom loving democratic nations Dates.
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Unknown B
Oh they're so fucking funny. You like think oh man. Let me tell you a little something about you ever heard of the Iraq war, buddy? God. Oh my God. I'm coming. I need to turn my camera. I'ABOUT to come so many times when he brings up how evil NATO is and how'the exact same is China and the Soviet Union where the exact. We're just so evil. Oh my God. He's about give the most epic he's about to get the most epic talking points. God, I'm so fucking hyped for this. Please Dave Smith lay into him with the Iraq and Afghanistan and then all the evil NATO talking points. Come on, show this guy what's up.
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Unknown F
Yes, encroaching upon Russia. NATO's a good thing there it makes all the sense in the world.
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Unknown D
What about the point is surely corrective it America and there was a country doing this. I think America would respond very aggressively to what they would perceive as an encroachment.
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Unknown F
Again, that aside for one second, what are we to do? Finland wanted to join NATO. Finland now shares almost a thousand miles of border with Russia. And Putin screamed to the high heaven that if Finland joined NATO there'd beel to pay. Nothing's happened. What do we do, Pierce? What do we do?
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Unknown A
Pierce?
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Unknown C
If peace.
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Unknown A
The answer is obvious.
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Unknown B
The answer is obvious. Its sad. But Ukraine is just not allowed to join because Russia said that if they do theyl whip their ass and we all have to be cucks to Russia. Thats just realistic. Thats just what we have to do. Plus NATO evil.
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Unknown A
Look Joe, I mean, look, aside from this, I mean, I gotta say I just. I find to be very immature thinking to say NATO's either good or bad. Like, I don't think that's ever how you should analyze the world. You can say, I know you, Pierce, you and Tucker had your argument about this, but if you want to say NATO's defenseensive alliance. I mean, I guess except for all the times when it's not, you know, except for Syria excuse. Except for Serbia and Libya and Afghanistan. But okay, you want to claim n it was a defensive alliance, look what we should do.
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Unknown B
So Serbia was the intervention for the genocide. Um, let me look up the Libya one. Was Libya. Was. Was Libya UN authorized 1. What was the name of that?
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Unknown D
Oof.
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Unknown B
Yeah. Okay, so the 2011 military intervention in Libya was NATO led, but it was implementing a. This was a UN Security Council resolution that had. Because it was s. A Security Council that had no votes opposing. So there were 10 votes in favor and five absentations. So even I believe it was China. Russia voted on because Gaddafi was so fucking unhinged, which he was, that even they abstained from voting against that. So you can call it NATO mission if you want, but it was UN Security Council stamp it approved. If it went'in Banato would have been some other group of people that would have went in because. Because even your Security Council here voted to uphold that resolution is not expand it.
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Unknown A
And I'm sorry, but who cares if other countries desire to join NATO?
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Unknown D
That seems to be.
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Unknown B
Oh my God, I just pushed the wrong.
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Unknown F
Oh, you can't say that.
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Unknown C
Okay, yeah, okay.
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Unknown A
No, don't. I don't agree.
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Unknown B
Fuck. Where was that?
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Unknown E
People like Bill Burns, James Baker understood.
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Unknown F
This, but Pierce to this notion not.
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Unknown A
Sure thinking to say NATO's either good or you un Tucker times when it's not. You know, except for Syria. Excuse me. Except for Serbia and Libya and Afghanistan. But okay, if youn to claim it was a defensive allce. Look, what we should do is not expand it. And I'm sorry, but who cares if other countries desire to join NATO? That's not how we should be making these decisions. Of course, lots of countries would love to join NATO. M a huge majority of them. Because yeah, you get your defense subsidized and you get protection from the most powerful government in the history of the world, United States of America. But that's not the question. The point is why would we want to expand NATO right up Vladimir Putin's borders?
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Unknown B
It was already there. It was already there. They didn't Invade because of anything to do with NATO. Why do we keep spreading that talking point? 2014 wasn't a response to NATO. It was response to Yanuovych being out. Ukraine wasn't any closer to getting in NATO in 2022 when they did the full scale invasion.
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Unknown D
It's just a lie.
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Unknown B
There's a lot Russian talk points and.
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Unknown F
But again, every time I'm on with you, you accuse me of immature thinking. Granted, nothing is totally black and white, but would you not say generally over the course of history. Here we go again. NATO has generally been kind of a force for good.
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Unknown B
Yeah.
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Unknown D
No, no, no, no.
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Unknown F
You can't say that. Oay.
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Unknown A
Yeah, okay. No, don't itactangling. Our founders were unanimous in recommending we don't get involved. And Jake, you can, you can say I'm wrong but dude, you'anti war as I am.
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Unknown B
How did that. I didn't get that far in the federal papers.
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Unknown D
How.
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Unknown B
What did our founders say about being involved in foreign nation affairs? Do we have a lot of. I don't, I don't even. My mind is a blank there.
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Unknown A
But so why are you.
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Unknown C
No, hold on. So. So listen're both wrong. You're both right. Okay, so. So listen, I love. First of all, just quick side note here that nobody can tell who's left or right anymore.
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Unknown D
This is exactly what think.
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Unknown B
I agree you on this, but do they have to start conflicts right away after NATO expands? Can Russian not say we've hated this expansion? Been waiting for a good time to re. If people were honest about it, then I would accept the argument. The reality is is Russia doesn't really like NATO expansion that much. Sure. But the reason why isn't because they're afraid that NATO is going to attack them. That's bullshit. They don't like it because Russia likes to rip and pillage its neighbors when it's convenient to them. And if their neighbors are in NATO, it's really hard to do that. That's why they don't want them NATO. If people like DAV shit were at least honest about that, he's like, well yeah, of course Russia's really mad. They don't want NATO to have Ukraineians out of it. Then they wouldn't be able to invade Ukraine whenever they wanted to when they were being Belarusian enough for them, then I'd be like okay, well he's using an honest argument now, right?
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Unknown B
Russia's not afraid a NATO invasion. And in Ukraine being in NATO now would not be the deciding factor if NATO can even invade This's a retarded point. It's so stupid. I don't like dishonest. I just be honest about the argument.
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Unknown A
No de.
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Unknown C
Nobody can tell who's left or right anymore.
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Unknown D
This is gen. That's exactly what I was thinking. The whole political pendulum has completely gone crazy where if you. If we had this debate 20 years ago, everyone would have known who the right arm, who left are. It is impossible anymore to define people in the way that we used to. And I like that.
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Unknown C
I love it. I love it because we're now using our minds and independent judgment and actually talking about policy rather than strict ideology on either side. So now look, I agree with Joe. The UN is very important. I know I'm a lone voice here these days in American media, but I 100% believe in the world working together. I think NATO is very important. I'm very supportive of NATO and I think it has definitely been a force for good and has protected the alliance. Having said that, Dave is right. Just because you like NATO doesn't mean that NATO has to get closer and closer to Russia. I mean, Joe.
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Unknown B
Yeah, that too. Destiny. Russia never claimed their 2022 invasionions because of Ukraine's potential. No acceptance. Their entire premise was to denazify Ukraine and help protect native Russians with the nonbas. That's two Even Russia didn't use that excuse. It's like when people like Hasssan will carry fucking buckets of water for Hamas. And you ask them like you acknowledge that Hamas they don't even fight with military uniforms, right? Like they literally fight in civilian garb constantly. Like, like um. U o fuck, I forgot that one guy's name F cing something like I remember I asked him in to debate with this. I know Hassan would never acknowledge this. Like these guys won't even was Omarar. They won't even acknowledge that. Yeah, Hamas fights and civilian guard constantly. Sure, they don't actually wear uniform. They won't even acknowledge that they make up lies for Hamas that Hamas doesn't even make up for themselves.
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Unknown B
Hamas will openly say of course we fucking blend it withing population. Fuck you, fuck Israel. We will fight however the fuck we can. We will use human shield don't give a fuck. Like Hamas says this and then people in the west will try to say well they don'they're. Not actually do that. Russia there was that whole thing that leaked on accident of like that weird thing where Ukraine and Russia were. Did he say kindred spirits? I don't remember but we're putting talked about like. Like we were common souls or common spirits, whatever bullshit from we long en rich history together. Like even they weren't citing NATO expansionism in the beginning. So why the are these losers doing it?
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Unknown C
U'saying that if you like NATO then you should be for no expansion. How NATO said okay, we'd like to expand into Chechnya in the middle of Russia. That's mental. That doesn't help the alliance, it hurts the alliance. It makes our job of defending both Europe and America harder, not easier. If we go and randomly put Taiwan in NATO, that makes no sense. So we've got to be judicious about who we put into NATO.
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Unknown B
And then now is a province in Russia, right? Is it consider like a semi autonomous but that's a part of Russia. No, like, I don't think. I don't know how that's okay.
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Unknown C
We get back to okay, NATO and America and Russia, the opposite side have to get to an agreement and that's good. We're all gonna save money. We're all gonna get peace. We're sa lives. We have to get an agreement. But back to the negotiation. If two companies are having trouble getting to an agreement and they bring me in as a mediator and then instead of helping them get to an agreement, I go now I want money for my company. Well, that doesn't help the negotiations at all. It makes a mediation the negotiation much more difficult. Because now you entered a third party in there that had no business there. And he's demanding like some outrageous number and then he starts attack the people who brought into the negotiation just so.
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Unknown A
Look, we all want to get without on Russia, but chek it makes no sense to see America as a neutral negotiator in that. Like we're not coming into a deal to ma a broker a pie. We are the other side of the negotiating table. Ukraine would have had to do whatever Russia wanted to do if we didn't give them a blank check. So it's just not exactly a blank check.
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Unknown B
Motherfucker, are you serious? What would it have average out to what, like $80 billion worth of combined aid per year? That's a blank check. A blank check. What did we spend in Afghanistan? It was north of a trillion dollars, wasn't it? I don't the fuck we spent money over there. It was north of a trillion dollars, wasn't it? How much total US spend in Afghanistan? Oh my goodness. Watson Institute for International Public Affairs Forever reliable Airsvania the United States SPE $2.313 trillion which includes operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
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Unknown A
Now I guess I mean look.
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Unknown C
Again that but then why are we attacking our own ally? That doesn't make any sense at all. Don't well this is.
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Unknown D
This is.
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Unknown A
Also I mean never underestimate the fact that we are dealing with Donald Trump here and if you something to piss him off Ale on that.
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Unknown C
Very point it was about money.
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Unknown D
Well there was a report in the Financial Times actually overnight right to that point DAV which was that apparently Zelenky when was first told that the American 20 half $500 billion worth of minerals lost his rag so spectacularly with whichever American official was releayless information you could hear his voice apparently screaming down the corridors and that Pres would got related who already has a bit of a bad feeling of about Zelenky going right back to when he first came into power. The whole thing with Hunter Bide and Trump is you he does take stuff very personally. I would say he's got the thickest skin of anyone I've ever seen in public life soaking up stuff that would kill anybody else but he also has the thinnest and does that make sense what he harbors grudges and he'll use that against him and I think that's a lot of what's going on with znsky I think he took against him personally but that doesn't mean that ultimately at the end of all this there might not be the best possible deal that Ukraine right now could probably hope for which may involve a bit of transaction
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Unknown D
on minerals but ultimately may bring the water to end that's killing so many of other people. Anyway, I want to change this briefly to the other war which we must forget out which is the war Israel, Hamas Amassor'll start with you on this. Netanyahu has suspended for the release of Palestinian prisoners because of the as he puts it the repeated violations by Hamas involving the ceremonies which he said have been dishonouring the Israeli hostages cynically using them for propaganda. So he's now delayed the Release of the 600 I think it was Palestinians that were due to be released in exchange. Now that's obviously a ratcheting up of tensions here but I'got to say'watching this from a distance these scenes of Hamas in full fallce with all their regalia putting coffins of babies underneath pictures of Netyahu looking like the devil beaming that to the world sending back the wrong remains of that poor whose children were also murdered etc.
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Unknown D
Forcing one of the release hostusages it seems to kiss Hamas Terrorist standing there, forcing them. So cool discussed that.
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Unknown B
That's what Hasan said.
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Unknown D
Now, you heard the deafening rules of approval there for what appears to be a acilia kiss by this hostage, Omar Hashm. But his father's come out, so he did it under duress. He was forced to do it. We don't know yet. We'want to hear it from him, but he certainly looked that way. Somebody goes up, Tim talks to him, and the next thing he's doing that. But the camera is. And it's obviously a huge propaganda moment for Hamas. So, I mean, Basia, it's all messy, it's all horrible. But the overriding imagery is that Hamas haven'gone anywhere. This war was supposed to be the end of Hamaaz. They don't look like they're over and they look like they have a lot of popularity still with. With Palestinian people in Gaza.
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Unknown G
You know, it says in Genesis, God tells Abraham, whoever blesses you will be blessed, and whoever curses you will be cursed. And I keep thinking, oh, she's got.
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Unknown B
To be prop Palestine, right? One trillion percent right. The Russian marching mod. It'got to be right.
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Unknown G
This is the perfect metaphor for those scenes from that parade. Because of course, to attend a parade in which the bodies of babies which have been strangled and mutilated are celebrated is accursed.
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Unknown B
No, she was Omega Zionus. Oh, shit. Was she? Oh, wait. Because they she Jewish. Oh, that's a weird combination of things. Okay, I don't remember my argum there about.
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Unknown C
Right.
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Unknown G
To bring a child to a parade celebrating the strangling and mutilation of babies s bodies is cursed to live.
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Unknown B
Wait, is that kind of weird? Did she just quote Jesus from the Bible? Did she just quoted the Bible? Wait, that's not kind of weird. She's partbably whatever trump is, is she?
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Unknown G
You will be blessed. It says in Genesis, God tells Abraham, whoever blesses you will be blessed, and whoever curses you will be cursed. And I keep thinking of this as the perfect metaphor for those scenes from that parade because of course, to attend a parade in which the bodies of babies which have been strangled and mutilated are celebrated is accursed.
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Unknown A
Right?
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Unknown G
To bring a child to a parade celebrating the strangling and util star David Neklace.
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Unknown B
Oh, true. I forget. I don't know the Jewish symbology. Okay, f I just associated sh with sa worship. Right? That was Old Testament. Oh, Genesis is the Old Testament. Thank you.
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Unknown G
Of baby bodies is cursed to live under a barbaric rule like Hamas that would put on a show like that is to be cursed to be so morallyse. And I think that is the point. This is the beginning of watch not just of Hamas, but of the left that defended them. Because you know, the left Israel is the Palestinians curse. It is the left who have cursed the Palesinians with their support because they are prolonging the moral depravity that has earned the disel of every good human on earth. And I am so grateful that my government, Donald Trump, the United States of America stand with the Jewish people against such pure absolute evil. Because it truly is going to be a new year. There is no going back from a parade celebrating dem mutilated strangled bodies of babies.
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Unknown B
O bies.
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Unknown C
Yeah, so ha is so stupid. And I totally.
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Unknown B
That's stupid. I love. I love ceenk. I love the terrist war show. It's fucking epic. Okay? Don'never. Change, okay? You prolley people. I love it. Alright, Never change. Okay? Let's be realm strangling a baby. Was that confirmed? I feel like babies have like huge necks. I feel like that'be like a lot of effort. Or maybe not, because people do accidentally know they roll over ono them or you use a pillow. Who strangles baby. Like that's a high eff for murder, even for a kid. Jesus.
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Unknown C
Agree that it's immoral, but are we ever gonna talk about the 15,000 dead children Israel slaughtered? Cur if you think the Palestinians are cursed because of 36 children killed during October 7th? How cursed is Israel for the 15,000 children? Their skull. They lit them on fire, destroyed and killed sol tens of thousands of children. And now you're saying oh my God. Because I see one with my own eyes. That's Israeli. Oh, the Israeliis are worth what? 10,000 palestian children?
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Unknown A
100,000 palestinine.
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Unknown C
Is there any number of Palestian children that you would have any sympathy for? So screw home.
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Unknown B
Do the thing. Do the wise by again, guys. I love what we do that one. That's my favorite. J. Manson, you do it you.
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Unknown C
But that does not justify Israel. Slaughterter after slaughter. Oh yeah, has make you do it. Israel is reveling in it. It is now a terrorist state. Tens to the west bank they take ridiculous plan of Gaza as a green light. And of course this is all raised. That's why support Trump. That's Trump. $7 million in family. So now they will int of the west bank to slower more Palestinian. So I hate that both sides are doing this and I hate that Israel's doing it. 10,000. No, 15,000.
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Unknown A
Times more.
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Unknown C
Because that's how many more babies they killed than children they killed than the one that the entire US and western is focused on.
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Unknown B
Can we not see? Important thing world has a strong voice too. I love it. Come on Jank. Give me one of those. You give me one of those.
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Unknown G
Please tell me Celebrating the casualies in Gaza.
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Unknown A
That was sickening that video, the reports of what was done to the hostages and I don't know, this all ev has actually been released.
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Unknown B
It was not even real. Whatever they did. Israel was worse. What did Ethan say? Did he call him it KPO Jew? Is that what the tradeaitr Jew? That's who Dave Smith is?
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Unknown A
Maybe find out at some point. But it's all sickening and horrible and I hate even use it to then try to win the political argument after it. Look, there's no question it is sickening to see like a big crowd celebrating these things. But I do think like b A fair pointseah we ex. We don't exactly see the same type of kind of primitive brutality on the side. There is this tremendous bias though I think toward exly how to this it's like a more anti barbaric bias. So Hama just gunning down random people.
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Unknown B
We have a bias against barbarism? Oh no, not the dreaded anti barbaric bias. What the fuck? I know the point he's about to make that it's gonna fucking It s really bad if somebody comes down with a gun, they are mowing down people. But if we do it with a bomb, if we do with a missile, somehow it's more righteous. That's crazy, man. That's what he's about to say.
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Unknown A
There's something where that triggers a certain reaction of something whereas you know, collateral damage or targeted strikes don't trigger that same response from people. The thing is that like if it's your kid on the side of that collateral damage, it probably feels awfully similar. And so in US like oh, are there parades where you know for say like Israeli hostagesers or prisoners, whatever they want to call them? No. I have seen Israeli politicians as well as American politicians signing the bombs, including EAs before they get launched into Gaza. Don't know, I find that pretty sickening. Also like to J's point, there is just a. Don't get me wrong, okay? I'm trying be as charable as I can. I would rather be next door our neighbors with like an IDF soldier than a Hamas militants. Okay, but there is a difference. But when you're talking about the level of human suffering that Israel has inflicted on the people who were not members of Hamasques who were probably more victims of Hamasque than anyone in Israel was large numbers of Please'm sorry.
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Unknown A
It does seem after a while a lot of people on the pro Israel side just value Israeli life more than they do Palestinian life and that is your rights. That is your right. I understand I value my children's life more than I value other children's lives. That's okay. That's right. It's not reasonable for me to require the law or politicians to value my children's life more than other children's lives.
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Unknown G
Dave, the whole of our civilization is based on the difference between barbaric physical violence inflicted by one human against another and the kind of collateral damage that tragically happens from justified warfare as long as it is proportionate now we debate that we have debated the question of proportion Civilization is on that.
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Unknown D
There were two things that really concerned one was proportionality but we know that 1200 people were killed on October 7th another 7000 were wounded 1200 killed of whom a smallish relatively smallish number were children what we've seen and obviously hundred fifty more we horrendous baby other children and that was all hrific anyway think otherwise I have no time for but I would say two what is proportion Seem to me about the middle of last year I began to sense that this was just getting protestly disproportionate but mainly because I didn't see that the endgame was going to be successful the endgame was supposed to be the eradgation of the mass of territor group There is no sign that they are eradgated and in fact US intelligence not come to general Kimr here about this US intelligence reports about a week ago suggested if every HA mass terrorist had been killed they've already been replaced by people with similar ideology so my fear was always that a disproportionate response by Israel would actually fuel the ideology behind a mass made them more popular, not less and in the process we've seen change at 15,000.
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Unknown B
Why doesn't anybody apply this same logic over to well I guess peers isn't pro Russian but like why not apply this to Russia then? Like are we worried that they're making anti Russian Ukrainian terrorists? Aren't we worried that AAR is gonna become a million times more Nazi? Aren't we worried about how disproportionate like notice how u I forgot on my international humanitarian law of our conflictable shit you said bellum is Cause for war. And you said bellw is behavior in war. I think, I think you said bellum. Fuck am I getting mixed up when um. There's no way that's right. You saidbellum oh, it is. God, I'm so bucing genius. You sabellum. When they're talking about Russia and their war against Ukraine, they're speaking in terms of causes for war that are u like how do you say this conceptual which is how war is by the way.
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Unknown B
It'generally thought that way. It's conceptual. It's not like oh, they just did a thing that took that killed 482 people. Well, were'gonna do a thing that kills 482 people. Its more like oh, they captured some piece of land and now we need to get that land back. Its not like a calculation like well, you know, they kill hundred twenty seven people taking over that land. We did counteratt take land back. We kill 250 people. We killed more two times many they killed. So we should probably stop. Thats not how people think about it. They think the causes for war and when theyre analyzing Russias when theyre analyzing the justification for Russias war, the justification for Russias war is always done on a conceptual level. Like oh well the you said bellum here. The conceptual_m the conceptual level for the war here is the expansion of NATO.
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Unknown B
But then when they talk about Israel, Palestine is use fuck. He said vellum. Yes, but when theyre talking about the Israeli Palestinian conflict, well now it just has to be like a comparison of number of deaths. So as long as like Hamas could invade and kill 500 people and I guess Israel is only justified in their response if u if they kill the same number of people like that'so weird. Like but its its obviously rair and stupid. Its intuitively rad stupid. Which is why when they talk about Russia they don't apply the same logic.
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Unknown D
Children reported out to to be killed. And that's just whatever you try and say by justipification it is unjustified to kill that number of children. It just eas isn't it?
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Unknown B
Well, I think like that doesn't make any sense. It's not justified to kill any number of children. It's not justified to kill one child, Any children. Assume we're talking about like babies. We're not talking about like 17 year old or 16 year olds fighting. Right? Like any baby or person like that was killed. That must be like collateral damage or something. You can target children intentionally just to kill children for the purpose of Killing children, No t matter how many people they ever said killed s like it's a ridiculous premise.
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Unknown E
Even like bit of historical myopia here maybe. I'm just kind of will remember the fact that we had 3,000Americans killed on December 7, 1941 by the Japanese. By the end of the war, we dropped two atomic bombs onhi and Nagasaki.
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Unknown B
Correct. We didn't measure In World War II, we didn't measure the number of deaths on both sides to look for a proper justification. Nobody does that. That's not how these things work. That's absolutely correct. Good job.
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Unknown E
And I suspect there were probably about 150 to 250,000 children that were incinerated in that attack alone. So I think that we are perhaps forget our own history and what we have done in a scenario of total war for the United States, for Great Britain and for Western Europe. And candidly, I think it was the right thing to do because it was total war to destroy the Japanese leadership of the Japanese empire, the Jewish state. Israel believes they're at total war with those terrist groups. But you're absolutely rapiers. Not only was Hamas celebrating that, but remember today Hezbollah was celebrating the death of Assan Nrallah. And it sure looked like there were are a lot of hezboah operators still fighting. It's a terrorist calculus.
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Unknown B
Why was Hebola celebrating Nassralah's death? Or would they just hold him like a celebration? Like that's with they for funeral. Like a.
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Unknown E
Not only was Hamas celebrating that, but remember today Iszbol was celebrating the death of Asan as Rala.
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Unknown B
He just means like the funeral thing. Okayeah.
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Unknown E
Sure look like there are a lot of fysboala operators still. It's a terrorist calculus. Kill one createed two. But in terms of the notion of number one, the Israelionde to the Hamas attack on October 7, they see it as total war. They are fighting as if tot totala war. The same way America did the same in 1941-1945 against the Japanese alone. We lost 3,000, they lost a million. We dropped two nuclear weapons on Japan.
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Unknown D
Yeah, you make very good points. So will. I don't think so.
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Unknown F
The ideology, the hatred of Jews was there before October 7th. The belief that Israel does not have a right to exist was there before October 7th. It didn't need October 7th to go off the charts. There will never be peace in this region as long as the Palestinian people. The Palestinian people pe not just the mosque. Do not believe Israel has a right to exist. Period.
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Unknown D
There also never be nonse doesn't exist.
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Unknown C
Palestine doesn't exist because of the murderous terror state of Israel. How many slaugher children you need before you say old like the Palesinians?
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Unknown B
Oh, he charged up. He, he's. Do I need to hear that one? Come on. I need the jank cadence. He's been charging up the whole time. He's about to let it go. We got like two minutes. Come on, come on, come on.
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Unknown C
Why the pales in the middle? Thats 50,000 children were lit on fire by Israel. Are they supposed to love Israel? Is that the ludicrous insane demand oh you don't love us of your children?
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Unknown B
No.
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Unknown C
It was war.
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Unknown D
That't meanro should you only get to peace when the Palestinian people have the same rights, human rights as everybody else around them? And that has been the running swl in this conflict. And you can make a great argument for both sides throughout the 75 years. But the one to me anarguable point is that Palestinians in Gaza particular have been living with diminished human rights to their neighbourss and that cannot be allowed to continue going forward. And it's going to be incredibly difficult to get to any lasting peace, incredibly difficult to get to two state solution. Everybody knows that. But ultimately you've got to afford the Palestinian people the same basic human rights that we enjoy. And until that happens, I don't see it'ever ever ending. Anyway. Fascting debate. Thank you all very much. I appreciate said to prolyendent getting any boss around here is me.
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Unknown D
You enjoy your show. You'only once in hit subscribe on YouTube and follow this uncess on Spotify and Apple podcast. In return we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain. And we'll do it all for free. Independent UN of media. There has s never been more critical. We couldn't do it without you.
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Unknown B
Thank you.