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Unknown A
Very fortunate to be joined this morning by Spencer Snyder, who is one of our fantastic breaking points contributors and whose videos regularly blow up on our channel. Great to see you, Spencer.
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Unknown B
Good to see you, man.
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Unknown C
Good to be here.
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Unknown A
So you were in Manhattan. You spoke to Luigi Mangione, made his first court appearance there since his original arraignment. And there were a bunch of Luigi supporters and sort of like anti healthcare industry protesters who were there waiting to get inside the courtroom. And also outside the courtroom, you were able to speak to some of them. We're going to play a little bit, but why don't you go ahead and set up what we're about to watch here?
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Unknown C
Yeah. You know, I went to the rally for Luigi Mangione outside the Manhattan Criminal Court on Saturday just to talk to some people and see what motivated them to come out. So I just prepared a few of their statements and their general sentiments.
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Unknown A
All right, let's go ahead and listen to that.
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Unknown C
Free Luigi.
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Unknown D
I spent thousands of dollars out of pocket and health care expenses in the past year. I good health care. I have anthem gold ppo and I just don't think that we should exist in a system where medical bankruptcy is a thing. And I don't think that murder is justified. But when you have a system that systematically devalues the lives of consumers and of citizens at the behest of the profit margin of the corporations, you're gonna have people get mad.
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Unknown E
Brian Thompson is indirectly responsible for the deaths of probably thousands of Americans at this point than Americans. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a lot. And so I, I think free Luigi means free health care. It means free our people. It means democracy.
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Unknown C
I don't think there's one person in this country that hasn't had at least.
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Unknown F
Some type of negative experience with healthcare.
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Unknown G
I will tell the one about my mom because she's passed since now, but she had a huge tumor in her neck. It turned out to be stage 4 Hodgkin non Hodgkin's lymphoma, which nearly killed her. But had she listened to the health insurance company and the doctor which wasn't willing to pressure the health insurance company, she would have, she would have passed at the age like 48. It's like I work with a lot of women who have breast cancer and they are getting declined their right to reconstruction. And I have to argue in a document, basically I'll write like a 40 page document saying like, hey, this woman had breast cancer. These are her rights. And they're kind of being declined. And this Is like really frequent.
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Unknown H
Since I'm a home health fate, I've seen it with within my patients, my clients getting, you know, denied, denied, denied with insurance claim that they really need. And I think it's just extremely unfair. And I, again, this is, you know, this is why I'm here. This is why I'm supporting Luigi. He is a hero to me. I don't see him as a criminal at all.
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Unknown F
We have a solution. The solution is a single payer, ideally a universal payer system across the United States. But we're also here advocating for the New York Healthcare act, which is a single payer system for New York. So if we can't get it for everybody, then let's at least prove that it is a viable concept here in New York.
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Unknown A
I mean, really interesting to hear that. It seemed like there were a lot of ladies there. So I'll let you weigh in on whether there was, in fact, a bit of a gender imbalance here, perhaps owing to the relative attractiveness of this gentleman. But also, what do they think that they could accomplish by coming out and doing this protest and supporting him as he's facing trial?
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Unknown C
I mean, as far as what they think is accomplishable just by that, I think it's up in the air. But I would say people there are really motivated by a broken health care system. People there were angry. They're frustrated. One person said when I asked her what she thought when she heard the news about Brian Thompson, she said, finally, something is being done.
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Unknown A
Wow.
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Unknown C
You know, there were a lot of doctors there, a lot of people who work in healthcare, but also just people who, you know, are angry about the healthcare system. You know, there were some Luigi fans. I mean, everyone's wearing green. Everyone had a lot of Luigi stuff and paraphernalia and hats. One woman had knitted a free Luigi sweater. But everyone I spoke with was there because they think the healthcare system is criminal. Everyone seemed pretty serious to me. No one told me, I'm here cause he's hot.
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Unknown B
Yeah, no, good point. That's very important. So in terms of the social effect of all of this, what struck you in terms of the way that people felt compelled to come out so they wanted to talk to you? Obviously, we heard a lot about disgust with the overall healthcare system, but how closely are they following the news? What do you think the political valence of most of the people who were in attendance were?
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Unknown C
Yeah, it's a good question. The people there were. They're following the case. They know what's happening. Political valence. They were definitely, I think there were a couple conservatives there. I know there was someone had pointed out a conservative YouTuber who was there or a tiktoker. But I mean people were there on the left. There were or I would say mostly, mostly leftists out there. I didn't see any DSA people who I, who I know are dsa, but there were people out there advocating for the New York Health act, which is something that the DSA has made a, made a project out of.
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Unknown A
How did they grapple with the sort of moral questions involved here? You know, you got a little bit a taste of that in the clips that you shared of someone saying like, well, I don't think murder is like murder is wrong, but also this health care system is wrong and immoral as well. So how were people sort of balancing the way that they, they felt and thought about that?
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Unknown C
You know, I think in my estimation they see the killing of Brian Thompson as not entirely dissimilar from someone who kills their spouse in self defense. I mean, there was, I'm sure everyone remembers the Emerson poll asking to what extent people found the murder acceptable. Something like 58% said totally unacceptable. Everyone else was somewhere between somewhat unacceptable and completely acceptable. I mean, that's a lot of people who, it seems to me think that being a health insurance CEO means you're some kind of criminal. Which is why a lot of people in the crowd, their big goal. When I ask them what they hope for, what they hope the outcome of the trial will be, a lot of people said jury nullification, which if you don't know is basically when the jury says, yeah, he did the crime, he would be guilty, but it's not that simple. So not guilty.
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Unknown B
Well, I'm really interested. So in terms of the protest and others as you were talking about, I know you follow the case as well. What are some of the other legal hurdles that Luigi faces now in terms of the procedural and eventually lead up to trial?
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Unknown C
Yeah, you know, something that the attorneys highlighted is just the complexity of the three cases because, you know, he's actually facing a trial in Pennsylvania where he was captured. He's facing a trial in New York and then he's facing a federal trial which he might be eligible for death. So it's, it's up in the air. I think we have, there is another hearing next month and I think that's at federal court and the next New York appearance will be in June, I believe. But I don't think anyone really knows what's going to happen at this point.
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Unknown A
So these are separate charges that he's facing in state court in Pennsylvania, state court, in New York and federal court as well believe. So what is the next that we will see from Luigi? When is his next appearance scheduled to be? And was there anything noteworthy from this particular appearance that people should know about?
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Unknown C
Not that I'm aware of. I haven't read all the details of what happened in the hearing.
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Unknown A
It's probably just pretty standard.
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Unknown C
Yeah, it was pretrial stuff, I would imagine. But the next appearance is next month in federal court.
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Unknown B
Got it.
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Unknown A
All right. Well, Spencer, thank you for being on the ground for us. It's very interesting to hear what we all had to appreciate. Yeah, I appreciate it. It's great to see you.
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Unknown B
Thank you.
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Unknown C
Great seeing you.
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Unknown B
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Unknown A
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Unknown B
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Unknown C
Com.